Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#131

Post by nailer » Fri, Apr 18, 2014, 11:32 PM UTC

santaclaus wrote: post #43

cylinder wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is a bit more ambitious but still wants a mix of the aforementioned lifestyle I would recommend Australia. Much bigger population and resources and better opportunities than NZ with a good safety net that doesn't cost the government much and doesn't suffer rampant abuse. I wouldn't recommend NZ for an American, except for perhaps retirement; it would just be too tough, the isolation and small pop. would be…

I don't know if I'd go that far. As an American who lived in NZ for a few years I got a very pacific northwest vibe from the NZ cities. If you like Portland or Seattle, Wellington is sweet as.

Portland to me feels like a smaller Melbourne. So maybe we've come full circle.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#132

Post by cpearce » Fri, Apr 18, 2014, 11:58 PM UTC

owenwil wrote: post #126

In New Zealand's technology sector, you're pretty much groomed to expect to have to move overseas to achieve anything worth something. All through university it was reiterated to me that I should move overseas to get the job I want and the money I want. The problem is, this behavior is down to the fact that it's true, you do have to leave NZ to get anywhere in life (for the most part, unless you're happy only hitting…

Mozilla has an office in New Zealand, you could come work with us... :)

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#133

Post by lostlogin » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 12:03 AM UTC

owenwil wrote: post #126

In New Zealand's technology sector, you're pretty much groomed to expect to have to move overseas to achieve anything worth something. All through university it was reiterated to me that I should move overseas to get the job I want and the money I want. The problem is, this behavior is down to the fact that it's true, you do have to leave NZ to get anywhere in life (for the most part, unless you're happy only hitting…

I'll slip in the (in)famous Muldoon quote on the brain drain. He commented on smart Kiwis leaving for Australia, saying it raises the IQ of both countries. The political solutions haven't got much better of late, and despite PM Key trumpeting how bad the brain drain is, he hasn't done much to halt with his years in power. He has possibly exacerbated it. http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/7779840/Key-changes-tack-with-...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_humour

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#134

Post by ChuckMcM » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 12:23 AM UTC

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #128

ChuckMcM wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful with the dissonance between the television narrative and reality.

I see a lot of people, including plenty in SV, who believe the "47%" narrative and plenty more who have nothing good to say about "the poors".

I don't disagree, the dissonance comes from conflating source to truth. It was once expressed in the adage, "It must be true, I read it in the newspaper!" which of course has no such authority. And more importantly how it is true is important as well. My philosopher friends go on and on about this. Critical thinking is really helpful here, and yes there are many folks who are not critical thinkers.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#135

Post by ThomPete » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 12:39 AM UTC

cowsandmilk wrote: post #84

ThomPete wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the nordic countries. Edit: Huh? Why the down vote?

Because you are so off-base The point of the post is that NZL has 20% below OECD average GDP per capita, when it would be predicted for them to be 20% above. The key figure is Figure 3 from http://www.productivity.govt.nz/sites/default/files/internat... In that, you can see NZL at the far bottom right. On the other hand, Norway, Sweden, and Finland are all above the line, meaning they have higher GDP per capita than…

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/18/how-do-you-say-n...

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#136

Post by CamperBob2 » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 12:42 AM UTC

levosmetalo wrote: post #118

CamperBob2 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, Norway, Sweden, and Finland are all above the line, meaning they have higher GDP per capita than predicted. The only nordic country below the line is Denmark, and they are barely below the line. Oil revenues make such comparisons tricky at best. You would need to consider the hypothetical case of a New Zealand with lots of oil to sell, or a Norway without any.

How exactly Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Iceland benefit anything from oil? It's only Norway that has significant oil reserves, and all other have none.

Well, there's Ikea, Nokia, and... hmm, I'm not sure what economic factors are important in Denmark and Iceland. But I'll bet they're very different than those prevailing in New Zealand, whatever they are.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#137

Post by mpyne » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 12:51 AM UTC

shadowfox wrote: post #66

Varcht wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would disagree that "poor are decidedly disliked" here as a rule. There are plenty of "poor" that are accepted, liked and even esteemed. Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc. There is dislike for the poor that resort to crime, thuggery, drugs etc. At least this is how I see it from my middle class perspective.

> Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc Maybe you are right and I am just cynical. But I have felt that some of these groups (with the exception of working class poor) are tolerated because of their success potential than for their status as individuals. And even with that a large number of people appear to disdainful of unsuccessful people in these field…

> Maybe you are right and I am just cynical.

IMHO it's just a bit of cynicism.

Even those who "hate the poor" here don't hate the poor, they hate the lazy. They simply equate being lazy with being poor. But if you're poor and working (or even poor but not imposing on society) then even the right-wingers I'd know of would have tons of respect.

If anything the desire for status seems to be reviled more and more in America too.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#138

Post by Retric » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 1:12 AM UTC

wyclif wrote: post #124

sophacles wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful with the dissonance between your social circle and "everyone". (In this case for instance - living in the midwest puts me into contact with a very large number of people who's beliefs align nearly perfectly with the television narrative).

Meh, you lost me. Completely. One thing you have to remember is that in general, Americans are culturally one of the most generous nations in the world. Broadly speaking, that includes foreign aid and domestic welfare as well as voluntary charity. But at that same time, the US is an industrious nation that prizes hard work. It's a fine line to walk and people fall through the cracks in the system. Nevertheless, it's…

As a % of GDP it's not actually that high.

US ranks #21 in Foreign aid and is 1/5 Sweden.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-that-give-the-most-i...

Welfare # GDP US: 14.8 Sweden: 28.9

Giving we are #1 in monitary donations but it's only 1.85% of GDP in the US. http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/24/america-philanthropy-income... "Based on volunteerism alone, the Netherlands comes first, followed by Sweden and then the U.S."

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#139

Post by mrmondo » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 1:43 AM UTC

I grew up in Christchurch, NZ.

90% of my friends immediately left the country after university. This is mostly due to low income employment and lack of potential career development.

Like most kiwis I moved to Australia (two and a half years ago now), my income increased by 50% just by making the move. People in Australia (Melbourne) also seem a lot happier and successful (by their own measures, whatever they might be).

For my friends and I, other than the beautiful landscape there wasn't much holding us to New Zealand and quality of life is better in Australia.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#140

Post by mrmondo » Sat, Apr 19, 2014, 2:08 AM UTC

mrmondo wrote: post #139

I grew up in Christchurch, NZ. 90% of my friends immediately left the country after university. This is mostly due to low income employment and lack of potential career development. Like most kiwis I moved to Australia (two and a half years ago now), my income increased by 50% just by making the move. People in Australia (Melbourne) also seem a lot happier and successful (by their own measures, whatever they might be…

Oh I should have mentioned that New Zealand does indeed have much better technological infrastructure than Australia though, two years after moving to central(ish) Melbourne the maximum internet speed is less than 1/10th what we had back in New Zealand years ago.