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Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

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Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#41

Post by tezza »

Although I'm an Australian, I was born in South Africa, and so was rather surprised to find that there is a standing joke in Oz:

How does a Kiwi get a small business?, you give them a large business.

That's just a cruel joke and yet another data point in why Kiwis (rightly) think Aussies are pricks to them.

From my personal anecdotal experience of NZ:

* they have a much more laid back attitude

* many of the hard workers f-off to Australia to do it

* the government takes big stands on things, which is admirable but not indicative of a focus on business.

- i.e. No American nuclear ships allowed to dock there.

It's not just the local prostitute trade that benefits by having a US naval base in town.

None of this is NZ hate, far from it... they do their own thing and they are fine with it.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#42

Post by santaclaus »

jamesfranco wrote: post #32
JPKab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good friend of mine studied abroad in Australia, and then met and moved in with a Kiwi and then lived in New Zealand with him for a while. He has now moved to the US with her. Her brother is a good friend of mine, and is incredibly irritated with his lack of drive and motivation. I've hiked with the guy, and I don't think he's lazy at all. He just doesn't value money, and his view on life is that he's going to teac…

"Nobody pressures you to achieve a certain level of material success." I live here in New Zealand and thats quiet true. There are 3 billionaires in NZ and almost no one knows who they are. The only guy that is living a noticeable extravagant lifestyle is Kimdotcom, but that guy's german.

Didn't James Cameron build himself a luxurious eco ranch out in wine country?

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#43

Post by santaclaus »

cylinder wrote: post #33
JPKab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good friend of mine studied abroad in Australia, and then met and moved in with a Kiwi and then lived in New Zealand with him for a while. He has now moved to the US with her. Her brother is a good friend of mine, and is incredibly irritated with his lack of drive and motivation. I've hiked with the guy, and I don't think he's lazy at all. He just doesn't value money, and his view on life is that he's going to teac…

If someone is a bit more ambitious but still wants a mix of the aforementioned lifestyle I would recommend Australia. Much bigger population and resources and better opportunities than NZ with a good safety net that doesn't cost the government much and doesn't suffer rampant abuse. I wouldn't recommend NZ for an American, except for perhaps retirement; it would just be too tough, the isolation and small pop. would be…

I don't know if I'd go that far. As an American who lived in NZ for a few years I got a very pacific northwest vibe from the NZ cities. If you like Portland or Seattle, Wellington is sweet as.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#44

Post by toddan »

ThomPete wrote: post #31
TallGuyShort wrote: post #13

It's refreshing to click on a headline in the form of a question and have the article explain why it's the right question to be asking, and not just following Betteridge's Law. I lived in New Zealand for about 5 or 6 years, and I saw huge numbers of people just living on welfare because they could - that's probably got a lot to do with low GDP. Normally, I would see that as a bad thing, but I think New Zealand's rela…

Reminds me of the nordic countries. Edit: Huh? Why the down vote?

because the nordic countries has showed being capable of excelebt inovation and entreprenourahip

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#45

Post by HarryHirsch »

grecy wrote: post #30
cryoshon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the related phenomenon that in the US, the rich are in the spotlight of society and the poor are decidedly disliked.

...and those who realize they have enough ignore the rich and are out living how they want to be (camping, hiking, taking photos, etc.)

and those who realize they have enough ignore the rich

If you only could. The problem is that in the US a great portion of taxes are locally raised and spent, and the way of dealing with poverty is to price the poor out of areas where they aren't wanted.

To get access to halfway decent schools you need to move to the suburbs, and what's available there in housing is hugely outsized. You cannot save on heating, cooling, cleaning and enclosed space, nevermind the commute, because that economic option does not exist. So you bite the bullet with everyone else and you cannot choose not to play the game.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#46

Post by Lewisham »

Having lived in NZ for a couple of years working at Victoria University of Wellington, the other piece of the puzzle is NZ suffers from crippling brain drain: their best and brightest students immediately head over to Australia where they can make more money and use the exchange rate to pay off their student loan quicker.

My read is that kiwis tend to come back when they're ready to start a family, but during those vital 18-25 years when the entrepreneurial spirit is strongest, they're simply not in the country. They're elsewhere.

The kiwis I talk to that are in that demographic here at Google all seem to be want to go back to NZ, but only if the prospects are there, such as Google opening a real-deal engineering office. But it's hard to convince companies that that is a worthwhile venture when Australia and NZ have freedom of worker movement.

Without the population to lead NZ forward, and with no companies willing to invest to drag it forward, I don't think we'll ever see NZ be richer and more productive. But as other commenters have noticed, I think NZ is perfectly happy with that, because they're happy with their lot, which is something to be envied.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#47

Post by hyp0 »

pcrh wrote: post #26
hyp0 wrote: post #7

Adam Smith noted cities were founded on "navigable rivers", because that's how trade works. Still true today for cargo ships. But today the internet is a river everywhere, for information goods. New Zealand is the most beautiful place in the world, in my travels (circumvented the globe, but not been everywhere). Though I'm biased towards mountains. So, theoretically, beauty+internet makes it a great place for softwar…

Circumventing the globe while traveling is a pretty impressive feat, unless you're an astronaut.

Well, I went around the globe rather than through it.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#48

Post by Varcht »

cryoshon wrote: post #29
JPKab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good friend of mine studied abroad in Australia, and then met and moved in with a Kiwi and then lived in New Zealand with him for a while. He has now moved to the US with her. Her brother is a good friend of mine, and is incredibly irritated with his lack of drive and motivation. I've hiked with the guy, and I don't think he's lazy at all. He just doesn't value money, and his view on life is that he's going to teac…

There's also the related phenomenon that in the US, the rich are in the spotlight of society and the poor are decidedly disliked.

I would disagree that "poor are decidedly disliked" here as a rule. There are plenty of "poor" that are accepted, liked and even esteemed. Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc. There is dislike for the poor that resort to crime, thuggery, drugs etc. At least this is how I see it from my middle class perspective.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#49

Post by ThomPete »

toddan wrote: post #44
ThomPete wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the nordic countries. Edit: Huh? Why the down vote?

because the nordic countries has showed being capable of excelebt inovation and entreprenourahip

In what sense?

The nordic countries are known for high taxes, excellent social welfare benefits, free healthcare, free education, low crime, low corruption, high quality of life and so on.

Sure they have some big companies but with a few exceptions they aren't build on innovation nor entrepreneurship. Most large companies in the nordic countries are quite old and the new ones that start there quickly move to the US, England or Asia if they want to scale.

Pretty much sounds like NZ.

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