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Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

wikileaks.org

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Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#131

Playing devil's advocate here, and watched a bunch of spy movies... What if Snowden is still a CIA agent (he was a CIA agent for years before NSA) and this is actually a snowjob/whitewash by the government to deflect attention or essentially control the message about news they knew would be released (diffusing that/controlling that message) and black-ops about China, Russia, Cuba + Venezuela how they treat/process po…

Ill go a step further. Snowmen is really a bellwether event created by this administration to either provide a redemption story for the Obama administration, should the public object too strongly-- or to test if surveillance can be taken much farther (if the public remains apathetic)

The only thing I might agree with is that this may be a bellwether event.

It's not useful scrounging up, uh, conspiracy theories for how it happened unless there is evidence.

The only argument you're invoking is abduction - that no other approach fits the facts. But the thing about the NSA is the level of spying and power that's demonstrated gives a strong indication they just don't have much reason to care what the public thinks. The average NSA bureaucrat isn't worried about the public at all but what argument their boss or colleague will use against them. And letting out information goes so hard against the default impulse that letting information out intentionally seems way unlikely, even as part of a clever master plan. I mean, if we're wandering to wild speculation land, the NSA has dozens of potential master plans. One that releases information and makes them look bad wouldn't do well in the "master-plan competition" - held yearly at Area 51!

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope: diplomatic immunity extends only to diplomats and their immediate families. As Snowden is neither, and cannot be nominated as one without the host country's approval, there's nothing stopping Russia or Cuba from detaining Snowden if they wanted to, no matter how many Elbonian diplomats he's travelling with. (Source: I used to have diplomatic immunity.)

In your opinion what were some of the best benefits of having diplomatic immunity?

As I used to tell friends in school, the best benefit was that I could kill people who annoyed me and get away with it...

Somewhat more seriously, pretty much the only perk was getting to use the Diplomats & Crew line at airport immigration. Most countries, including mine, make their diplomats pay their parking fines etc, and while I was theoretically exempted from security checks, it was virtually always faster to put your bags through the X-ray and walk through the metal detector than it was to pull rank and wait forever as the proto-TSA at the time ran around like headless chickens, looking for the manager's manager's manager needed to authorize the exception. The police treat diplomats with either thinly disguised contempt (if they ran into them a lot and knew they couldn't do much of anything) or, more commonly, puzzlement; and once again, it was usually way easier to pop the trunk and let them have a look than it is to invoke immunity and deal with the resulting confusion.

And as far as complimentary upgrades to first class and "ambassador's lounges" (wot?) do, I'm not sure what the other reply has been smoking, but it's probably not the Vienna Convention. Airlines don't give any free benefits to diplomats, they earn their status through butt-in-seat miles like the rest of us.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#133
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? Chavez spent his entire period in office warping the machinery of the state in his favor, and his successor is refusing to investigate some pretty serious allegations of fraud for the last one. http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21579458-real-questio...

I have serious concerns about Chavez policies, but accepting US media portrayals of Venezuela is about as naive as taking Chinese state owned media at face value: Their reports could be accurate, but you won't know without comparing it with alternatives.

The Economist is rather British, and is not known for toeing the party line of any country.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ill go a step further. Snowmen is really a bellwether event created by this administration to either provide a redemption story for the Obama administration, should the public object too strongly-- or to test if surveillance can be taken much farther (if the public remains apathetic)

The only thing I might agree with is that this may be a bellwether event. It's not useful scrounging up, uh, conspiracy theories for how it happened unless there is evidence. The only argument you're invoking is abduction - that no other approach fits the facts. But the thing about the NSA is the level of spying and power that's demonstrated gives a strong indication they just don't have much reason to care what the…

Yes, my post was an intellectual exercise ignoring the fact that public opinion plays little to no role in defense politics, especially not for a president nearing the end of his second term.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#135
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do when they knowingly break the laws and run away from the consequences like Snowden and Assange have (Assange's even more appalling given the rape allegations he also ran away from). Manning, at least, didn't do that. I stand corrected about Wikileaks role in this particular aspect of the story as they do seem to actually be helping him elude justice. But they seemed to have nothing to do with his actual leaks…

I'm afraid your understanding of justice and my own differ greatly. It's probably an insurmountable impasse. To me, exposing a massive surveillance apparatus is a laudable act of heroism, and he doesn't deserve this kind of condemnation. What if, just maybe, the laws you defend so adamantly are unjust? What about the consequences for all of us that live under them? Why not defend those that tell us the truth?

You can argue about whether they're unjust laws or not, but they still exist and if you break them, you should face the consequences. That's what the civil rights leaders in this country did, among others.

But honestly, from my reading, I'm mostly okay with what the NSA's doing and most of what he revealed isn't all that new or surprising (others reported on PRISM long ago, local governments have kept track of phone records for decades, it only makes sense the feds would as well). This is also what many citizens want their government to be doing, hence the many complaints about the Boston bombers not being adequately tracked beforehand.

The one part that troubles me is the storing of 'inadvertently' collected communications from US citizens for five years without a warrant. That seems wrong. Other than that, I only think there should be a bit more transparency. If Snowden's leaks lead to that, that's a good thing.

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#136

"Mr Snowden requested that WikiLeaks use its legal expertise and experience to secure his safety." They tried 2 times before, Manning is in jail, Assange is living in an embassy. Only losers quit. edit: I see that Garzon is on board, he's the one who tried to judge Pinochet, one of the CIA's dictator. His job ended when he tried to bring trials for acts of the spanish dictature.

His job ended because he knew he didn't have jurisdiction to start this trials but he proceeded anyway and because he asked for money to a banker who was judging at the time (the infamous "dear Emilio" letter)

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#137

Suddenly the front page is Snowden Snowden Snowden. Hacker News is even worse than Reddit at latching to news-of-the-minute.

The unraveling of the American Republic is news of the century. Additionally, in terms of the implications of this leak for geopolitics and Internet business/security, this is easily the biggest and most important story in international affairs since 2001.

The unraveling of the American Republic

Hyperbole much?

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#138

Suddenly the front page is Snowden Snowden Snowden. Hacker News is even worse than Reddit at latching to news-of-the-minute.

The unraveling of the American Republic is news of the century. Additionally, in terms of the implications of this leak for geopolitics and Internet business/security, this is easily the biggest and most important story in international affairs since 2001.

But still not hacker news. This type of news was part of the doom of Slashdot. Sure, political news are fine, but a lot of us do not come to Hacker News for political news... we are aware of Reddit, Slashdot and news.google.com

Re: Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong

#139
post #48

"What is being done to Mr Snowden and to Mr Julian Assange - for making or facilitating disclosures in the public interest - is an assault against the people." What exactly is being "done" to Julian Assange? The only reason he's stuck in the embassy is because of rape accusations.

Q: "What exactly is being "done" to Julian Assange?" A: "rape accusations" Sometimes you need to look no further than your own comment to answer your own question.

What are you suggesting?
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