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AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#131

Post by Aurornis »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #88
UqWBcuFx6NV4r wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s be real, chances are that the people with a lot of money on the line have given it more thought than the passing thought that you gave this comment.

> Let’s be real, chances are that the people with a lot of money on the line have given it more thought than the passing thought that you gave this comment. In theory, definitely. But this seems like a really, really, really no-good seriously bad decision from Anthropic. Like, I get why they want this (and can see it from their perspective), but many of their largest clients literally cannot allow this without regula…

> but many of their largest clients literally cannot allow this without regulator sign-off,

Their largest clients can negotiate their own deals with their own terms.

They do not have to go through the same public Amazon Bedrock deal that you and I sign up for.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#132

Post by JeremyNT »

dsign wrote: post #85

The root of the problem is that AI-as-a-service is corked, because companies providing it have a hell of an incentive to use all that data to out-compete their competitors, and they can do so in secret. To say nothing of salivating law-enforcement who really, really wants to tap into it. I'm hoping there will be at some point open-source and affordable hardware that can run competent models.

It's all extremely dystopian and I don't see how things improve. The handful of megacorps that have access to the compute and troves of stolen IP to train their secret models on have no incentive to contribute back.

They say their models are too dangerous for the public, so they can nerf the GA versions while allowing only their preferred megacorp or nation state partners access to the real secret good versions.

We can hope the Chinese open weight models will catch up, but if/when they really reach parity with proprietary frontier models you can bet they'll stop releasing their weights too. They don't do this stuff out of the kindness of their hearts.

It's tough to imagine what might possibly derail this.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#133

Post by calgoo »

chatmasta wrote: post #101
flir wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A model that opens the slightest gap for a leak would be unacceptable to the org I work for. We are very paranoid about losing vulnerable customers' data.

Anthropic has all the answers for that. You’ll go through some compliance exercises and classify them as a subprocessor of highest tier of data sensitivity.

Except they are an American corpo and there is no guarantee that the data will stay on EU servers, so that is a giant NO at the moment. This was the main reason to stick with Bedrock, as it supposedly stays within your aws account on the EU servers. Now? Whats the points in using Bedrock anymore apart from paying more.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#134

Post by foobar_______ »

iterateoften wrote: post #123
cobolcomesback wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every one of the competitors capable of a similar model have been salivating for a long time at the idea of consensual data sharing. Anthropic just opened the door for everyone to do the same thing without having to deal with being the first to do so. My bet is that OpenAI etc’s next model will have these same requirements. Ever since the Mythos announcement it’s been clear that we’re heading towards a future where S…

This narrative any criticism about Anthropic is emotional is such corporate cope that it boggles the mind to see people defend a trillion dollar corporation time and time again all while the same corporation actively makes things worse for the average person. Cool. Everybody is doing it. Doesn’t make it right or make it good for the people. Everyone should complain and help others wake up that Anthropic isn’t the “go…

Preach. I think I left a nearly identical comment yesterday in another thread. "well, the other companies do it too so they're not that bad" is absurdity. "that got shit on my couch, but he didn't shit in my mouth so he's not really that bad" just seems so misguided.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#135

Post by throwfaraway4 »

Things like siphoning your data and using it to train while nerfing the model for everyone else is just the beginning of shady, rug-pulling, enshitification behavior we should expect. The dev community more than ever now needs to focus on being self-reliant and supporting open source models. They're counting on our skills atrophying over time to where you need their models to get work done. Ask yourself, do you actually need a frontier model to do this work? I think in many cases the answer is no. Don't support hostile behavior like this. Also, you can bet they're going to front government surveillance if not by choice, by regulation and political pressure.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#136

Post by Aurornis »

storus wrote: post #87

This smells like an advanced version of corporate espionage. Assuming most companies will use their AI in the future, this will be fed directly to an Echelon-like network that will be leaking "interesting info" to friendly parties, like the Boeing vs Airbus scandal that was first widely reported and then swept under the rug officially.

Why would a secret espionage program be partially publicized?

If they were doing some secret espionage or government surveillance with the data, they would just do it all in secret.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#138

Post by realusername »

chatmasta wrote: post #101
flir wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A model that opens the slightest gap for a leak would be unacceptable to the org I work for. We are very paranoid about losing vulnerable customers' data.

Anthropic has all the answers for that. You’ll go through some compliance exercises and classify them as a subprocessor of highest tier of data sensitivity.

There's no way to do that with EU laws, the data has to stay on EU servers.

That might work in some countries but Anthropic approach here doesn't fit the legal requirements in the EU.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#139

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

OtherShrezzing wrote: post #27

This is odd behaviour, and provides some evidence that Anthropic isn't being managed by serious people. With this policy across AWS/GH/Zed/etc, they're taking their massive lead in enterprise/govt sales and handing it to any competitor who can serve a model anywhere near these capabilities with a modestly nice UI.

> This is odd behaviour, and provides some evidence that Anthropic isn't being managed by serious people

It's hard to tell how much of what Anthropic are currently saying is just pre-IPO marketing bullshit, or how much will be their long-term policy.

If this is just marketing bullshit ("our models are so powerful we need to keep them chained up at night"), then it does seems massively ill-conceived. I can't think of a better way to break hard-earned customer trust than to say:

1) If we don't like what you're working on - if we think it may complete with ourselves - then we will silently fuck-up the code you're paying us to generate for you

2) Much reduced privacy guarantee. We will now retain everything you send us for an unspecified amount of time while we investigate it

Both of these seem especially self-defeating given that Anthropic has been very successful at courting corporate use, especially coding, and also still seem interested in courting military use.

The silently refusing to comply one (do they just mean deliberately dumbed down, not giving you what you are paying for, or actively sabotaging the generated code?) is really quite extraordinary. Why not just refuse the request? Perhaps they want to claim that gives too much signal as to what they think is valuable, although I think this "recursive self-improvement" story is 100% bullshit trying to juice the IPO. Are they really so arrogant to think that every other company developing LLMs hasn't figured out things like basic development infra?

IMO just the fact that Anthropic think it's in any way acceptable to silently fail requests that might reflect someone else trying to build anything that competes with them is bad enough, but the massive incompetence in what "Fable" is refusing shows that any such decision making is going to be causing them to silently fail a lot more than what they are trying to do.

The Anthropic model names "Mythos", "Fable" seem to have been conceived by a 14-year old thinking that "epic" names will convince people that the model is powerful. It's a bit like putting racing stripes and a loud farting exhaust on your Honda Civic.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#140

Post by tyingq »

zmmmmm wrote: post #122
pczy wrote: post #111

This policy applies across all providers. Here is the warning in Cursor: https://i.redd.it/7sfyker2ya6h1.png Note that Anthropic has committed not to train models on logged data, so I don’t understand some of the concerns here. What exactly is your threat model? That Anthropic would train models contrary to their terms of service? That you trust them enough not to log your data prior to this, but not enough to trust…

> you trust them enough not to log your data prior to this, but not enough to trust their stated limits on how logged data will be used now It doesn't really matter how much you happen trust another party. In the regulatory world it only matters what contracts they will sign that guarantee their compliance. We do have those with AWS, we don't with Anthropic. If Anthropic physically captures the data, they just moved…

It will absolutely cause some non-trivial number of customers to shift their configs away from Anthropic.
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