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Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

blog.kilocode.ai

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Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#131

Post by boleary-gl »

aeon_ai wrote: post #69
conartist6 wrote: post #32

"I firmly believe that AI will not replace developers, but a developer using AI will replace a developer who does not." Ugh, anyone who says that and really believes it can no longer see common sense through the hype goggles. It's just stupid and completely 100% wrong, like saying all musicians will use autotune in the future because it makes the music better. It's the same as betting that there will be no new invent…

AI isn't a stylistic preference or minor enhancement, but cognitive augmentation that allows developers to navigate complexity at scales human cognition wasn't designed for. Just as the developer who refused to adopt version control, IDEs, or Stack Overflow eventually became unemployable , those who reject tools that fundamentally expand their problem-solving capacity will find themselves unable to compete with those…

Author and Kilo Code team member here - this is a much better explanation of what I mean. And honestly, it's a quick phrase I've been using that is shorthand really for THIS much better-written take.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#132

Post by ajsnigrutin »

MOARDONGZPLZ wrote: post #30

I would absolutely do this if I ran anthropic. Of course unlimited implicitly means “unlimited without abuse.” There are always these “power users” who run it 25/8 and use all the resources, or sell access to others. To Anthropic: of course the “power users” are also going to be the top 5% of extremely online folks who are going to angrily pen long form tweet storms and this whole thing will die down soon for the oth…

So at what point does "normal usage" stop and "abuse" start? How many "queries" per day is that?

If there is a clear limit to that (and it seems there is now), then stop saying "unlimited" and start selling "X queries per day". You can even let users pay for aditional queries if needed.

(yes i know queries is not a proper term to use here, but the principle stands)

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#133

Post by benterix »

mentalgear wrote: post #10

E.g.: Apple's new "iCare" offers "unlimited" repairs by subscribing for 20 USD / month! - note: "unlimited" does not mean free. quote source: "Apple Just Found a Way to Sell You Nothing" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytkk5NFZGjs

That's crazy, I misinterpreted just like others, that you pay a monthly but repairs are free. But on re-reading the terms, it turns out this is just pure bullshit. Why would anyone buy this "new iCare"?!

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#134

Post by bubblyworld »

conartist6 wrote: post #32

"I firmly believe that AI will not replace developers, but a developer using AI will replace a developer who does not." Ugh, anyone who says that and really believes it can no longer see common sense through the hype goggles. It's just stupid and completely 100% wrong, like saying all musicians will use autotune in the future because it makes the music better. It's the same as betting that there will be no new invent…

Lol, I think making confident claims in either direction is total copium at this point. It's abundantly obvious that LLM-based tools are useful, it's just a question of what we'll settle on using them for and to what degree.

Nobody knows how this will play out yet. Reality does not care about your feelings, unfortunately.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#135

Post by [deleted] »

Insanity wrote: post #107
OtherShrezzing wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might not have noticed in all the frustration, but you got overcharged. 170 + 20% VAT is 204, not 206.50. Maybe they added a card fee in at the end, but if they didn’t make that abundantly clear, they’ve broken a law in most countries which use the Euro.

Why 20% VAT? Different EU countries have different tax brackets, so OP might not have had 20%.

[deleted]

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#136

Post by mark_l_watson »

conartist6 wrote: post #32

"I firmly believe that AI will not replace developers, but a developer using AI will replace a developer who does not." Ugh, anyone who says that and really believes it can no longer see common sense through the hype goggles. It's just stupid and completely 100% wrong, like saying all musicians will use autotune in the future because it makes the music better. It's the same as betting that there will be no new invent…

+1, even though I mildly disagree with you. I pay For Gemini Pro by the year, and even though I don’t use it often, it is still high value. There are obvious things like generating a Bash shell script quickly - and other things I rarely do, are simple, and I save 5 minutes here and there. Sometimes code generation can be useful, in moderation.

But the big thing is using AI to learn new things, explain some tricky math in a paper I am reading, help brain storm, etc. The value of AI is in improving ourselves.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#137

Post by NiloCK »

conartist6 wrote: post #32

"I firmly believe that AI will not replace developers, but a developer using AI will replace a developer who does not." Ugh, anyone who says that and really believes it can no longer see common sense through the hype goggles. It's just stupid and completely 100% wrong, like saying all musicians will use autotune in the future because it makes the music better. It's the same as betting that there will be no new invent…

Do the people in this corner use compilers? Would they agree that programmers who don't use them* have been replaced by those that do?

*: I'm aware of cases like the recent ffmpg assembly usage that gave a big performance boost. When talking about industrial trend lines, I'm OK with admitting 0.001% exceptions.

(Apologies if it comes across as snarky or pat, but I honestly think the comparison is reasonable.)

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#138

Post by Chris2048 »

conartist6 wrote: post #93
aeon_ai wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI isn't a stylistic preference or minor enhancement, but cognitive augmentation that allows developers to navigate complexity at scales human cognition wasn't designed for. Just as the developer who refused to adopt version control, IDEs, or Stack Overflow eventually became unemployable , those who reject tools that fundamentally expand their problem-solving capacity will find themselves unable to compete with those…

Really, scales human cognition wasn't designed for? Human cognition wasn't designed to make rockets or AIs, but we went to the moon and the LLMs are here. Thinking and working and building communities and philosophies and trust and math and computation and educational institutions and laws and even Sci Fi shows is how we do

> we went to the moon

We also killed quite a few astronauts.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#139

Post by victorbjorklund »

jennyholzer wrote: post #67
conartist6 wrote: post #32

"I firmly believe that AI will not replace developers, but a developer using AI will replace a developer who does not." Ugh, anyone who says that and really believes it can no longer see common sense through the hype goggles. It's just stupid and completely 100% wrong, like saying all musicians will use autotune in the future because it makes the music better. It's the same as betting that there will be no new invent…

[flagged]

I'm sure that is how many photographers felt about digital cameras and photo editing software when it first came. Now very few professional photographers work without digital cameras and photo editing software (even if it is just to tweak some colors). Yes, you will still have some artists making money with purely analog cameras without any touch up but they are a tiny minority of the photographers getting paid for their work (slightly more people use analog cameras as a hobby).

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#140

Post by ibaikov »

energy123 wrote: post #34
epistasis wrote: post #6

I'm trying to cancel my Claude plan right now, because mid-research I got hit with a one hour time out for the first time, and I realized just how little I need the "expensive" research stuff and just want basic language refinement and some basic augmented knowledge search to get more terms to search the web. And all that basic stuff gets cutoff when you hit some invisible barrier that you have no way of controlling…

Google and OpenAI have done similar things with their LLM offerings. Gemini Advanced offered 2.5 Pro with nearly unlimited rate limits, then nerfed it to 100/day. OpenAI silently nerfed the maximum context window of reasoning models in their Pro plan. Accompanying the nerf is usually a psy op, like nerfing to 50/day then increasing it to 100/day so the anchoring effect reduces the grievance. It's a smart ploy because…

I wonder if that's actually illegal, because it feels very close to false ads etc. It seems legal, but I think courts would side with customers.

As if google would say that yes, emails are $5/mo, but there's actually a limit on number of emails daily, and also number of characters in the email. It just feels so illegal to nerf a product that much.

Same with AI companies changing routing and making models dumber from time to time.

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