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Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

qcnews.com

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Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#131

Post by exabrial »

closewith wrote: post #54
nrjames wrote: post #41

I've spent a significant amount of time working in disaster response. In the US (and probably elsewhere), you have "Disaster Cowboys." These are people who are untrained but fancy they know better how to do things than people who have spent their lives training for these types of scenarios. Picture 1000 people showing up with their pickups and John boats following Hurricane Katrina. Or, imagine the Coast Guard conduc…

We call them Walter Mittys, not Disaster Cowboys, but yes, these people appear at every scene. Everything else you said rings true, but sometimes motives are more sinister than a desire for personal glory. Vulnerable people attract predators and there's plenty of vulnerable people in disaster zones.

> Vulnerable people attract predators and there's plenty of vulnerable people in disaster zones.

Funny you say that, because the government wants a monopoly on "help" and is willing to use lethal force to enact it.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#132

Post by JumpCrisscross »

exabrial wrote: post #40
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FEMA is out of money, because they spend $1 billion supporting illegal immigrants FEMA is not in a cash shortage. It projects it will run out of cash. But that doesn’t impact present operations. (Technically, the whole government runs out of cash in December.) And remember: President Trump used FEMA funds on illegal immigrants, too [1]. [1] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/aug/30/pete-butti...

That’s a lot of hand waving to say the exact same result

> a lot of hand waving to say the exact same result

You said FEMA is out of cash. It is not. To the degree it is, every appropriated program in the world is.

Also, they're not out of cash because they spent $1bn on illegal immigrants. And their spending money on illegal immigrants is not unprecedented.

TL; DR Bullshit comment.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#133

Post by Atheros »

voidUpdate wrote: post #77
exabrial wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the main problem is what? Control? 1000 people show up and your leadership skills or ego can handle it? Sure be embarrassing if they outdid the government, that’s for sure. How about this: get out of their way. Or even better: clear their paths. Or conduct your own operations and don’t worry about it.

What would your reaction be if someone showed up to your place of work and just started trying to do things how they thought they should be done, ignoring the proper channels and now knowing any of the procedures?

After a physical bomb went off 24 hours prior, trapping us, one of my co-workers is dead, and no emergency services responded? Is that really your question?

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#134

Post by Dalewyn »

traceroute66 wrote: post #94
fleabagmange wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't know (or have forgotten) how to do that, you should not be flying a plane. Full stop. I’m sure the victims on the ground have a different opinion, but thank you for chiming in on their behalf. On defense of the Pilot, it’s awfully hard to coordinate with some random nobody power-tripping beaurocrat in a disaster area with no power, water, or standard communication in play. As a reminder this occurred t…

> As a reminder this occurred the day after the storm. I don't care if its the day of the storm, the day after or 50 years after. The rules and laws of aviation do not cease to operate just because there has been a major storm. In fact quite the opposite, they deserve to be far more rigorously adhered to and enforced because of the greater risk.

>The rules and laws of aviation do not cease to operate just because there has been a major storm.

Quite the opposite, emergencies tend to suspend a lot of laws and regulations that aren't fundamental in deference to lack of time demanding that actions be swift and effective.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#135

Post by Atheros »

fleabagmange wrote: post #80
voidUpdate wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would your reaction be if someone showed up to your place of work and just started trying to do things how they thought they should be done, ignoring the proper channels and now knowing any of the procedures?

It’s not a place of work. It’s America. It’s also a disaster zone beyond anything some keyboard warriors need be pontificating on. Ive personally had to deliver diesel into Asheville to rescue family with a two month old over the weekend. You might see some nice PR photos coming out from the last day or two of Chinooks and cargo drops but at the time this incident occurred, there was nothing going on out there. If yo…

The comments in this thread are astounding. The only thing I can think of that may be happening is that people here are so disturbed by the possibility that emergency services can fail that they have fallen into denial. "There is no need for people to help, at least without going through organized channels, because those organized channels are in control" is what I suspect they are thinking.

I saw it online after Trump was shot- "How could the top protection organization in the world fail so flagrantly? The shooter must have had inside help." Some people cannot accept that the world is less safe than it really is. It could be the cause of some of these comments in this thread but I don't know if it's the whole cause.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#136

Post by rightbyte »

Dalewyn wrote: post #134
traceroute66 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a reminder this occurred the day after the storm. I don't care if its the day of the storm, the day after or 50 years after. The rules and laws of aviation do not cease to operate just because there has been a major storm. In fact quite the opposite, they deserve to be far more rigorously adhered to and enforced because of the greater risk.

>The rules and laws of aviation do not cease to operate just because there has been a major storm. Quite the opposite, emergencies tend to suspend a lot of laws and regulations that aren't fundamental in deference to lack of time demanding that actions be swift and effective.

Ye like looting.

I mean, I have no clue who is at fault here. But cutting the boring fire chief trying to coordinate the mess some slack might be good.

This smells of righteous social media outrage.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#137

Post by closewith »

oasisaimlessly wrote: post #87
voidUpdate wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would your reaction be if someone showed up to your place of work and just started trying to do things how they thought they should be done, ignoring the proper channels and now knowing any of the procedures?

Bad analogy. If someone considers a disaster zone to be their personal fiefdom, they have a screw loose.

At every major incident I've ever attended, there has also been someone appointed in the hierachy who controls the scene as their personal fiefdom. We call them an incident commander.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#138

Post by tzs »

Dalewyn wrote: post #134
traceroute66 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a reminder this occurred the day after the storm. I don't care if its the day of the storm, the day after or 50 years after. The rules and laws of aviation do not cease to operate just because there has been a major storm. In fact quite the opposite, they deserve to be far more rigorously adhered to and enforced because of the greater risk.

>The rules and laws of aviation do not cease to operate just because there has been a major storm. Quite the opposite, emergencies tend to suspend a lot of laws and regulations that aren't fundamental in deference to lack of time demanding that actions be swift and effective.

"a lot" is not all and many of the aviation rules are fundamental.

The last thing you want when trying to do major emergency response is to add an air disaster or two to your existing emergency. Even if lack of coordination doesn't lead to a crash, it can disrupt other rescue operations.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#139

Post by Dalewyn »

rightbyte wrote: post #136
Dalewyn wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The rules and laws of aviation do not cease to operate just because there has been a major storm. Quite the opposite, emergencies tend to suspend a lot of laws and regulations that aren't fundamental in deference to lack of time demanding that actions be swift and effective.

Ye like looting. I mean, I have no clue who is at fault here. But cutting the boring fire chief trying to coordinate the mess some slack might be good. This smells of righteous social media outrage.

I'm not giving the bureaucrat slack because other government officials, law enforcement, and first responders were able to coordinate with the pilot just fine.

As far as this story can tell us, things were going swell (as swell as a disaster area could be) until McBureaucrat came in and demanded he be worshipped. Ain't nobody got time for that nonsense.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#140

Post by infamia »

voidUpdate wrote: post #83
fleabagmange wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a place of work. It’s America. It’s also a disaster zone beyond anything some keyboard warriors need be pontificating on. Ive personally had to deliver diesel into Asheville to rescue family with a two month old over the weekend. You might see some nice PR photos coming out from the last day or two of Chinooks and cargo drops but at the time this incident occurred, there was nothing going on out there. If yo…

It is the place of work of the disaster recovery people, who have established communication channels and procedures. If there is literally nobody coming to help you, then it may be reasonable to go ahead and do it yourself, but it feels incredibly unwise to do it if there are already people trying to do things

So many of communities in NC are completely cut off without food, water, power, and until a day or two ago cell service. The level of "disaster recovery" is shameful to nonexistent in so many places. I invite you to watch the video from this news report.

https://www.qcnews.com/news/investigations/sc-pilot-flying-v...

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