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Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

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Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#71

Post by sethammons »

oefrha wrote: post #60
sethammons wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a mountain area with regular residents that is over five hours of driving from the ocean. They expected a couple inches of rain. They didn't expect 20 inches and a dam to break. Nobody predicted this kind of damage. These were not idiots who ignored warnings. These are people who were hit with an unprecedented natural disaster and if you had called them idiots outloud around here you may end up with a broken…

Five hours of driving from the ocean is nothing. I have lived on opposite sides of the world and prepared for both hurricanes and typhoons plenty of times while being further from shore. I have prepared for two recently. These aren’t natural disasters without warning (unlike say earthquakes), and while you can hardly mitigate the damage, there’s no excuse being stranded unless you simply live alone. Maybe people in y…

Gotcha. These people, mostly residents, should have disregarded the predictions of 2 inches of water, assumed it could be, literally 10x as bad, and should have relocated, potentially at expense rates that would hurt their paycheck to paycheck situation. What idiots.

Airbnb renters shouldn't be going into mountains during storms in general. Why do you keep bringing them up though? What percentage of the people stranded, dying, and dead are you ascribing to short term renters? I would be astounded to discover if it was more than 5%.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#72

Post by lukan »

jquery wrote: post #62
lukan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It is desperately unfair to them when somebody untrained, with a "cowboy" attitude, shows up and flips the script. " Those rescued by the cowboys did not expressed that. Sure, everyone prefers the professionals to show up, but if they don't, because they are overwhelmed by the situation, I surely would be glad, if an "cowboy" comes instead to pick me up. Troublemakers in search for attention are to be kept away for…

The article is written with an obvious slant, from the perspective of a guy who decided to go to the media to bash first responders after being asked to coordinate via proper channels. I would take anything he said with a huge grain of salt.

"I would take anything he said with a huge grain of salt."

I do and I did not like that reporting, but if the facts are somewhat right, the arrest threat from wanting to at least still pick up his left behind son is way over the line, of anything reasonable.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#73

Post by oefrha »

sethammons wrote: post #71
oefrha wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five hours of driving from the ocean is nothing. I have lived on opposite sides of the world and prepared for both hurricanes and typhoons plenty of times while being further from shore. I have prepared for two recently. These aren’t natural disasters without warning (unlike say earthquakes), and while you can hardly mitigate the damage, there’s no excuse being stranded unless you simply live alone. Maybe people in y…

Gotcha. These people, mostly residents, should have disregarded the predictions of 2 inches of water, assumed it could be, literally 10x as bad, and should have relocated, potentially at expense rates that would hurt their paycheck to paycheck situation. What idiots. Airbnb renters shouldn't be going into mountains during storms in general. Why do you keep bringing them up though? What percentage of the people strand…

> mountain AirBnB ... (I won’t even say this if they actually lived there)

How about reading comments you reply to? Anyway, I’m done with this bad faith exchange.

Edit: Thanks for the shadow edit changing your comment entirely after my reply, making a bad faith exchange worse. Why do I keep bringing AirBnB renters up? Maybe because I read the article before commenting and it’s what the particular incident is about?

I won’t further change my reply even if there are more shadow edits.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#75

Post by voidUpdate »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #25
shakow wrote: post #6

Well, looks like the pioneer spirit is well dead and buried in the US.

"You are not allowed to do anything without the approval of the Nameless, Faceless Bureaucracy [that isn't coming to help anyway]."

What would your reaction be if someone showed up to your place of work and just started trying to do things how they thought they should be done, ignoring the proper channels and now knowing any of the procedures?

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#76

Post by kuschku »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #13
jachee wrote: post #8

[flagged]

> ACAB This is ambitiously wrong to the point of parody. One, fire chiefs are not cops. Two, the cops in the story were coördinating with the pilot. Three, the fucking pilot is a “a Class 1 certified law enforcement officer.”

ACAB applies in the sense that ACAB can be seen as a general critique of all hierarchical authority, not just law enforcement officers on duty.

It's obvious that the previous pointer did not use such a strict interpretation of ACAB and applying such an interpretation here only serves to poison the discussion.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#77

Post by voidUpdate »

exabrial wrote: post #50
nrjames wrote: post #41

I've spent a significant amount of time working in disaster response. In the US (and probably elsewhere), you have "Disaster Cowboys." These are people who are untrained but fancy they know better how to do things than people who have spent their lives training for these types of scenarios. Picture 1000 people showing up with their pickups and John boats following Hurricane Katrina. Or, imagine the Coast Guard conduc…

So the main problem is what? Control? 1000 people show up and your leadership skills or ego can handle it? Sure be embarrassing if they outdid the government, that’s for sure. How about this: get out of their way. Or even better: clear their paths. Or conduct your own operations and don’t worry about it.

What would your reaction be if someone showed up to your place of work and just started trying to do things how they thought they should be done, ignoring the proper channels and now knowing any of the procedures?

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#78

Post by sethammons »

oefrha wrote: post #73
sethammons wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotcha. These people, mostly residents, should have disregarded the predictions of 2 inches of water, assumed it could be, literally 10x as bad, and should have relocated, potentially at expense rates that would hurt their paycheck to paycheck situation. What idiots. Airbnb renters shouldn't be going into mountains during storms in general. Why do you keep bringing them up though? What percentage of the people strand…

> mountain AirBnB ... (I won’t even say this if they actually lived there) How about reading comments you reply to? Anyway, I’m done with this bad faith exchange. Edit: Thanks for the shadow edit changing your comment entirely after my reply, making a bad faith exchange worse. Why do I keep bringing AirBnB renters up? Maybe because I read the article before commenting and it’s what the particular incident is about? I…

Clearly I read your comment as dismissing the general population there as airbnb travelers with the proviso that some may actually live there

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#79

Post by _djo_ »

nrjames wrote: post #41

I've spent a significant amount of time working in disaster response. In the US (and probably elsewhere), you have "Disaster Cowboys." These are people who are untrained but fancy they know better how to do things than people who have spent their lives training for these types of scenarios. Picture 1000 people showing up with their pickups and John boats following Hurricane Katrina. Or, imagine the Coast Guard conduc…

Well said. Your point about 'disaster cowboys' is especially important, as disasters also unfortunately tend to attract people with a hero complex and without sufficient skills to be doing what they're doing.

That's why you have proper volunteer organisations so that volunteers can be vetted before running around the disaster area.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#80

Post by fleabagmange »

voidUpdate wrote: post #75
nathanaldensr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You are not allowed to do anything without the approval of the Nameless, Faceless Bureaucracy [that isn't coming to help anyway]."

What would your reaction be if someone showed up to your place of work and just started trying to do things how they thought they should be done, ignoring the proper channels and now knowing any of the procedures?

It’s not a place of work. It’s America.

It’s also a disaster zone beyond anything some keyboard warriors need be pontificating on.

Ive personally had to deliver diesel into Asheville to rescue family with a two month old over the weekend. You might see some nice PR photos coming out from the last day or two of Chinooks and cargo drops but at the time this incident occurred, there was nothing going on out there. If you didn’t know someone who could help you, or make it to a central place point you were SOL.

Here and today, now, even with assets in place it just isn’t enough.

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