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Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

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Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#41
I've spent a significant amount of time working in disaster response. In the US (and probably elsewhere), you have "Disaster Cowboys." These are people who are untrained but fancy they know better how to do things than people who have spent their lives training for these types of scenarios. Picture 1000 people showing up with their pickups and John boats following Hurricane Katrina. Or, imagine the Coast Guard conducting a search grid and all of these people zooming around the grid in every which way.

On one hand, yes, they save some people. On the other hand, they are not on the official search grid rosters, don't tend to take directions well from the authorities, and can cause all sorts of havoc. They can make it harder to find people in need. In fact, when they don't coordinate with the authorities, they end up wasting the experts' time (who may end up covering the same ground) or, when they do coordinate, people in need end up getting missed because the random people who show up to help are not properly trained to conduct searches.

Finally, as this news article shows, these folks have a tendency to go to the media and present themselves as heroes. You very rarely see that from the official search and rescue/recovery teams.

Disaster response is extremely psychologically and emotionally stressful. You may ride a wave of adrenaline while you're out in the field, but most staff end up rotating out (by mandate) after several days to protect them. Even among professionals, there are a lot of people who end up relying on alcohol to ease their minds.

Most importantly, the dignity of the people being rescued/recovered is important. It is all about those people, not about the hero rescuers. They are literally in trauma and can be dangerous and/or in need of urgent help, medical or otherwise. It is desperately unfair to them when somebody untrained, with a "cowboy" attitude, shows up and flips the script. Or, even worse, the cowboy crashes his helicopter and there's one more person who needs to be rescued.

Not all people who randomly show up in their helicopters or John boats are like this, but enough of them are to sow chaos. And look at us all wasting time talking about this guy who feels slighted because his unprofessional help was refuted. It's the same story every time.

Let the professionals do their job and, at the very least, let them coordinate the volunteers who show up to help. It sounds like a great idea for everybody to show up in their helicopter, but trust me, it's not.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#43
post #11

While this sort of thing sounds excessive and unfair at first glance, and the article is written with a clear slant, there's usually a good reason for it. Disaster response and rescue air missions are enormously complex with a lot of moving parts, and allowing anyone with an aircraft to get involved can actually make the entire response less effective. It's extremely common for disaster response and search & rescue t…

Oh, nonsense. This local police officer had no idea what they were doing. Otherwise, they would have restricted the airspace on an ongoing basis: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/foa_html... They did it temporarily, and once. At loggerheads with other rescue efforts.

Fire chief, not police officer.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#44
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if the official who threatened arrest was the "correct" firefighter to coordinate with, why didn't the official incorporate him into the larger operation rather than threaten him? I think the most likely answer is a small town bureaucrat had to prove that he's in charge, and now they're trying to do some damage control.

Or that he was overwhelmed by local issues and wasn't aware of which one of the many organisations was the one coordinating volunteers with their own helicopters. He may just have known that random people adding themselves into the mix wasn't allowed.

So how should the pilot have known who to contact, if even the assistant fire chief wasn't aware of who was in charge of coordinating volunteers?

I agree he was probably having a stressful day, but if his default response to stress is to threaten to put a man in a cage, then he should not have authority.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#45
post #11

While this sort of thing sounds excessive and unfair at first glance, and the article is written with a clear slant, there's usually a good reason for it. Disaster response and rescue air missions are enormously complex with a lot of moving parts, and allowing anyone with an aircraft to get involved can actually make the entire response less effective. It's extremely common for disaster response and search & rescue t…

I don't have it handy. Caught a tiktok last night of a separate helicopter pilot. It is not one guy either. There are several private choppers trying to help. The one I heard, he had rescued a newborn and an older woman on oxygen. Both would otherwise be dead now. He says there are people with makeshift SOS markers and simply not enough public helicopter help. Apparently the rescue effort is focused on clearing 10 to…

There is an organisation, the Carolina Emergency Response Team, that's coordinating private helicopters for the response. That's who he should've approached from the start, and according to the article he's flying for them now.

There are plenty of military helicopters, but in several areas the available landing zones aren't large enough, which is why the CERT is coordinating small private helicopters.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#46
post #11

While this sort of thing sounds excessive and unfair at first glance, and the article is written with a clear slant, there's usually a good reason for it. Disaster response and rescue air missions are enormously complex with a lot of moving parts, and allowing anyone with an aircraft to get involved can actually make the entire response less effective. It's extremely common for disaster response and search & rescue t…

Having been part in localized efforts after a similar event, it's nearly always that the national emergency response is late, slowly, bureaucratic and makes things worse.

Some Bigwigs talking over people with local knowledge, ignoring advice, wanting to press their processes and rules...

Most people, after a couple of days were all aligned 'Leave the money and the equipment, we will do the rest.'

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#47
post #11

While this sort of thing sounds excessive and unfair at first glance, and the article is written with a clear slant, there's usually a good reason for it. Disaster response and rescue air missions are enormously complex with a lot of moving parts, and allowing anyone with an aircraft to get involved can actually make the entire response less effective. It's extremely common for disaster response and search & rescue t…

So if the official who threatened arrest was the "correct" firefighter to coordinate with, why didn't the official incorporate him into the larger operation rather than threaten him? I think the most likely answer is a small town bureaucrat had to prove that he's in charge, and now they're trying to do some damage control.

> So if the official who threatened arrest was the "correct" firefighter to coordinate with, why didn't the official incorporate him into the larger operation rather than threaten him?

There are any number of valid reasons from liability to the inability to vet the pilot's skills and licenses to the danger of introducing a pilot unfamiliar with the current SOP/LOPs.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#48
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or that he was overwhelmed by local issues and wasn't aware of which one of the many organisations was the one coordinating volunteers with their own helicopters. He may just have known that random people adding themselves into the mix wasn't allowed.

So how should the pilot have known who to contact, if even the assistant fire chief wasn't aware of who was in charge of coordinating volunteers? I agree he was probably having a stressful day, but if his default response to stress is to threaten to put a man in a cage, then he should not have authority.

He should've approached the South Carolina Emergency Management Division, perhaps: https://www.scemd.org/recover/volunteer-and-donate/

Or contacted one of the organisations listed here: https://www.fema.gov/disaster/4829

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#49
post #19

While the brave men should be applauded, can I vent my frustration about these victims, who decided it was a good idea to stay alone in a mountain AirBnB in the possible path of an incoming hurricane (I won’t even say this if they actually lived there)? It’s not like the hurricane came out of nowhere, there was plenty of advance warning. Good people sometimes die trying to rescue these idiots. Oh and there’s also a 4…

This is a mountain area with regular residents that is over five hours of driving from the ocean. They expected a couple inches of rain. They didn't expect 20 inches and a dam to break.

Nobody predicted this kind of damage. These were not idiots who ignored warnings. These are people who were hit with an unprecedented natural disaster and if you had called them idiots outloud around here you may end up with a broken nose.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#50
post #41

I've spent a significant amount of time working in disaster response. In the US (and probably elsewhere), you have "Disaster Cowboys." These are people who are untrained but fancy they know better how to do things than people who have spent their lives training for these types of scenarios. Picture 1000 people showing up with their pickups and John boats following Hurricane Katrina. Or, imagine the Coast Guard conduc…

So the main problem is what? Control? 1000 people show up and your leadership skills or ego can handle it? Sure be embarrassing if they outdid the government, that’s for sure.

How about this: get out of their way. Or even better: clear their paths. Or conduct your own operations and don’t worry about it.

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