Looking at his personal website it seems like he might have other motivations http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/matloff.html
Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
131–140 of 231 posts
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#132I'm a 25 year-old former Marine who thought he could take a shot at being a programmer when he exited the military. I never had any background in programming other than being interested in UNIX and Linux at a young age, so CS seemed like the logical choice for someone who had a GI bill to burn. 2 years and a lot of classes later, I'm realizing I'm too old to compete at this gig, and I should have started when I was 1…
Perhaps, try an alternate method of learning. Drop the course load, and instead think of some ideas that you really want to see happen (doesn't matter how trivial, or whether it has already been done). Then go make it happen.
Along the way you will definitely learn what you need to, and it should be a fun and rewarding journey. Using the free resources available on the internet, you may also pick up quite a bit of CS fundamentals and theory along the way, as well as see their practical application. When you show these hobby projects to potential future employers, your passion and motivation will definitely stand out, no matter how amateur the final result actually turned out.
It is scary to stray from the standard curriculum, and wing it. Who knows how things will turn out, what if you are doing things the "wrong" way, and you won't even have a piece of paper to show for it at the end. But that really is the most important difference between someone starting at age 12, and someone starting at 25 - the freedom to explore.
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#133I'm a 25 year-old former Marine who thought he could take a shot at being a programmer when he exited the military. I never had any background in programming other than being interested in UNIX and Linux at a young age, so CS seemed like the logical choice for someone who had a GI bill to burn. 2 years and a lot of classes later, I'm realizing I'm too old to compete at this gig, and I should have started when I was 1…
I read your story and I see someone who is full-time kicking ass to fulfill a true personal passion. I see you've got various doubts. One small suggestion: when you say things like "I'm too old to compete at this gig" ask yourself if there is specific actual convincing evidence for that, or if you're just grappling with some near-term depressive thoughts. (Also, try gathering evidence for the opposite argument: That…
I thought there was? I mean, I keep reading about the age bias of hiring someone cheap at 18 or fresh out of college at 23, and that seems like a deathly blow to my success probability. I'm 25 now, so if I continued on the same path I'm on today, I would be starting out at 28.
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#134I'm a 25 year-old former Marine who thought he could take a shot at being a programmer when he exited the military. I never had any background in programming other than being interested in UNIX and Linux at a young age, so CS seemed like the logical choice for someone who had a GI bill to burn. 2 years and a lot of classes later, I'm realizing I'm too old to compete at this gig, and I should have started when I was 1…
You started out with the hardest programming language in common use. Bad idea. Start with Python and grow from there.
I initially did start out with Zed Shaw's book when I got out, but I was inevitably channeled into C++ because that's all colleges teach here. I guess they're a bit behind the power-curve, as always.
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm 31, and I have coworkers in their late 30s and early 40s, working in a large multinational with legacy systems. The truth is, while it doesn't get that much mentally harder to learn new technologies, it is very hard psychologically. For someone used to a large paycheck, to being the go-to guy in the technology and set in their 9-to-5 ways, to get out of their comfort zone, and admit that what they know is no long…
I'm 36, and you sound exactly like me when I was 31. Same situation, surrounded by a team who was on average 10 years older than myself married with children, working on mostly legacy stuff. Nobody seemed to really care much about their jobs, just wallowing in skill rot. When I was 32/33 or so I was offered to go into management. I turned down that management offer, kicked butt where I could and got promoted to a pri…
Thanks for the inspiration...I was pumped after reading this since I find myself in roughly the same frame of mind. I'm in the process of wrapping up Hartl's tutorial and preparing to do my first Rails project. I am so happy to read about your excitement with the projects you're working on and your employment prospects. Congrats!
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#136He seems to have missed making the point in the title. Why would software engineers work for english majors? He thinks that a 20 something english major is a better manager for a software engineer than a 40 something software engineer? Plus he seems to completely miss a separate alternative for software engineers over 35-- start their own businesses. I think the perception that 40 year olds are not up to date on tech…
"He seems to have missed making the point in the title." I think his title was more of a gimmick to catch people's eyes; I think it worked. "I think the perception that 40 year olds are not up to date on technology is laughable" I strongly feel that this depends on whether the 40 year old likes programming for its own sake, or they feel that it's just part of a 'clock in' and 'clock out' job. It's also very difficult…
I strongly feel that this depends on whether the 40 year old likes programming for its own sake, or they feel that it's just part of a 'clock in' and 'clock out' job
Your right. It is. Then again it's equally true of the 20 year old in my experience. Most people in their forties who are still cutting code have been through three or four "fashionable" languages and have done serious work in all of them. You'll be amazed a the number of fresh faced young folk I interview who just know Java.
more open minded ... to things like longer hours
Nah. It's just that folk in their forties have figured out that longer hours aren't more productive :-)
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#137I'm a 25 year-old former Marine who thought he could take a shot at being a programmer when he exited the military. I never had any background in programming other than being interested in UNIX and Linux at a young age, so CS seemed like the logical choice for someone who had a GI bill to burn. 2 years and a lot of classes later, I'm realizing I'm too old to compete at this gig, and I should have started when I was 1…
This may seem like another one of those trite responses you mentioned, but I would second the notion that "you can do anything you put your mind to" and that you should keep up the program, or at least keep learning CS on your own. If you look to put degree notches on your belt and list languages you know on your resume, you're looking at things the wrong way. Build things! Get excited about what you can build--anyth…
I agree with you, and I would love to actually have the time to dedicate to such a focus. What ends up happening in reality, however, is the tradeoff between having a roof over your head, and learning. I'm not sure I'm well versed enough yet at being a civilian worker, and still having enough time to dedicate to learning what it is I want to know.
In other words, I look at your post and thing "YES, Great! I would love to do all those things!," when I come back down to reality and realize that I'll need to spend the majority of my time making slightly more than minimum wage to support myself, just to have a place to sleep. While some learning can be accomplished in the downtime, we both know it can't be done as fast or as efficiently as a full-time student's dedication.
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#138The article states: "A large technology company might typically pay new law-school graduates and MBAs salaries and compensation approaching double what they give new master’s degree grads in computer science. " But, from what I've read, those high-paying law school jobs are very few, only for the elite of the elite, and requires the new employee to work insane hours. Same for those MBAs. I'm pretty sure that, on aver…
> But, from what I've read, those high-paying law school jobs are very few, only for the elite of the elite, and requires the new employee to work insane hours. Same for those MBAs. My sister got a law degree and then did an internship specializing in tax law (I know). She got a job last year straight out of college (at age 25) making $130,000 at a firm that handles the tax issues when one company wants to acquire an…
Many people are graduating from law school with the same amount of debt as your sister and no job. While programmers in general seem to have a better shot at getting their first job.
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#139I'm a 25 year-old former Marine who thought he could take a shot at being a programmer when he exited the military. I never had any background in programming other than being interested in UNIX and Linux at a young age, so CS seemed like the logical choice for someone who had a GI bill to burn. 2 years and a lot of classes later, I'm realizing I'm too old to compete at this gig, and I should have started when I was 1…
It seems like you're kind of a jack of all trades. This is an awesome skill-set to have while working in a datacenter. Call it IT/dev-ops whatever.
The tech field isn't restricted to just people that code for a living.
I would ignore Norman Matloff. Some 15-20 years ago he wrote a series of articles claiming that H1-Bs, outsourcing etc would kill off the careers of all US programmers. That didn't happen as far as I can tell.
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#140I'm a 25 year-old former Marine who thought he could take a shot at being a programmer when he exited the military. I never had any background in programming other than being interested in UNIX and Linux at a young age, so CS seemed like the logical choice for someone who had a GI bill to burn. 2 years and a lot of classes later, I'm realizing I'm too old to compete at this gig, and I should have started when I was 1…
Well, the competition is outrageous at the top end of programming jobs, also bear in mind that you are reading HN where many of the commentators are above average programmers who dream in code. However just because you might not land a job at Google does not mean you will not be able to create a decent career for yourself. If you can get any experience working on OSS at all, especially on a reasonably well known proj…
Having previous military experience definitely helps get your foot in the door at all the military contractors as well. Often times when developing new features we don't have the benefit of really having a good idea of what the soldier wants. Putting myself in their shoes is tough to do without that experience and having an expert can really allow us to develop features that get used. Also, if you had or have held a security clearance that can carry some weight at the defense contractors as well.