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Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

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Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#91
In this case you cannot really look at current practices and predict the future. For many of us in the "new programmer" category now, we will see an exponentially increasing lifespan as well as several other improved aspects of health and intelligence. In the limit, this may lead to age having almost no meaning.

Besides, English Majors?! I dare say that english shouldn't even be a major. A great academic in any field should be articulate in expressing ideas, in at least one language.

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#92
I'm a 25 year-old former Marine who thought he could take a shot at being a programmer when he exited the military. I never had any background in programming other than being interested in UNIX and Linux at a young age, so CS seemed like the logical choice for someone who had a GI bill to burn.

2 years and a lot of classes later, I'm realizing I'm too old to compete at this gig, and I should have started when I was 12, if I wanted to be taken seriously. The only thing I have any skill in is various computer related things, but not one thing in particular. I've developed a very basic knowledge of C++, but that's laughable really. So I'm stuck, unsure of what it is I should really be doing. I could get a dead-end part time job and continue my schooling, but it seems almost futile at this point. I was denied to the University of Florida, yes the school that recently killed-off their CS department in favor of Football funding. It was the top school in the state, but they wouldn't accept my transfer because I'm only now up to the Calculus 1 and Physics level (rightfully so I guess, that was my mistake). Being that I could only take those classes now, it would probably be another year at least, to get to where I could actually transfer to a real university. The only reason I've been able to do this is because of the GI bill that's been granted to me because of my time in the service, but that's running out and I don't have anything to show for it. Other than a General AA, which probably wasn't worth my time - despite planning ahead.

I keep reading stories and anecdotes about how this field is going, and I'm starting to become very unsure if it's something I need to stick with to prevail, or whether it's already too late. I can't find anyone that will tell me the truth - just those that placate with notions of "you can do anything you're just not trying hard enough," despite my 15 hour course-load. From my perspective it seems like CS is an unattainable feat unless you're fresh out of high school at the age of 17 with several dual-enrolled college courses under your belt. The competition is outrageous. Don't you think I want skills that are worth someone's money?

I read about how people with experience with Java, C++, C, C# and so fourth, at least having the ability to put multiple languages on their resume, can't find employment because they haven't done a formal project or haven't been a part of, and accepted, within the OSS community. This frightens me because my skill level is nowhere near where it needs to be to do this, and I highly doubt how much I can persevere with the time that I have left.

I used to open up my IDE with the prospect of learning new things and freshness being able to develop a more solid understanding of what I thought I could do for a living. While I finish out the courses I'm still in, it would appear now, as I reflect, that I'm only doing it to pass the course now, as my delusions of grandeur have faded.

Edit: Wow. Thanks for all your input. This will give me a better objective view to reassess my path. Again, thanks.

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#93

The author is a CS professor. Does he not enjoy CS or something? I'm not certain what his goal is with this article. "Finally, those high programmer salaries are actually low, because the same talents (analytical and problem-solving ability, attention to detail) command much more money in other fields, such as law and finance." This is a tricky one, because it really boils down to "it depends." I can't speak about th…

Those quoted finance salaries won't include bonuses I suspect, so the potential upside is much higher than that.

The programmer at GS who was accused of taking their code (and later acquitted) was on at least $400k, although I can't remember the exact figure.

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#94
post #8

He seems to have missed making the point in the title. Why would software engineers work for english majors? He thinks that a 20 something english major is a better manager for a software engineer than a 40 something software engineer? Plus he seems to completely miss a separate alternative for software engineers over 35-- start their own businesses. I think the perception that 40 year olds are not up to date on tech…

Zuckerberg was at Startup Weekend? Did you mean Startup School?

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful. "Now I have another Rails project lined up for a NYC fashion site that pays about 15% more per hour than my day job" Contracting is vastly different than being an employee. Your employer pays considerably more than 15% more per hour for you (employer portion of taxes, portion of health insurance , etc.) As a contractor you'll be responsible for those expenses.

That 15% is not taking into account base salary (I'm including bonus + 401k matching)... it's more like 25% if you look at it that way ;). And this is a pretty entry level rate... in a year from now I know I'll be able to command at least 50-70% more. Health insurance can be had for barely more than the cost of fuel I was using in my daily commute, which is $200/mo. Yes, I have to do my own taxes, and yes they'll be…

As someone who left full time about 2 years ago to do 1099 work only, I recommend you definitely work on pushing your rate up as you go. Not only do you have to account for the extra costs, it's also likely you won't always be billing 40 hours a week. I've finally gotten my rate to a point where I feel alright if I only bill 20 hours of work a week. I am working a full week, balancing programming time with managing existing clients, connecting with potential new ones, and taking time to stay involved in open source projects which have been my best marketing strategy. Also account for the fact that all time off is unpaid. My hourly rate is now about twice what I was paid as a full time employee. Good luck!

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#96

The article states: "A large technology company might typically pay new law-school graduates and MBAs salaries and compensation approaching double what they give new master’s degree grads in computer science. " But, from what I've read, those high-paying law school jobs are very few, only for the elite of the elite, and requires the new employee to work insane hours. Same for those MBAs. I'm pretty sure that, on aver…

> But, from what I've read, those high-paying law school jobs are very few, only for the elite of the elite, and requires the new employee to work insane hours. Same for those MBAs.

My sister got a law degree and then did an internship specializing in tax law (I know). She got a job last year straight out of college (at age 25) making $130,000 at a firm that handles the tax issues when one company wants to acquire another. Among all the jobs you could have as a corporate (and especially tax) lawyer, it seemed pretty cool. One of her early projects involved a well-known entertainment company that wanted to buy another entertainment company (although the deal eventually fell through).

In recent months she's been crying a lot and wanting to quit. She works 6-7 days a week and 12+ hours a day. She's never home and has no life. She'd rather start her own restaurant, which is something that she's always had a passion for. Even if her pay were cut to 25% of what it is now for the first few years, she says she would be happier, but she's contractually stuck in this job for a minimum of 12 months (until September), so it's kind of a personal hell. Also, there's the sunk cost issue. She's already devoted 8 years of her life and $100,000 to preparing for this career, so it's hard to just walk away.

My point is, good money is rarely easy.

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 31, and I have coworkers in their late 30s and early 40s, working in a large multinational with legacy systems. The truth is, while it doesn't get that much mentally harder to learn new technologies, it is very hard psychologically. For someone used to a large paycheck, to being the go-to guy in the technology and set in their 9-to-5 ways, to get out of their comfort zone, and admit that what they know is no long…

I'm 36, and you sound exactly like me when I was 31. Same situation, surrounded by a team who was on average 10 years older than myself married with children, working on mostly legacy stuff. Nobody seemed to really care much about their jobs, just wallowing in skill rot. When I was 32/33 or so I was offered to go into management. I turned down that management offer, kicked butt where I could and got promoted to a pri…

Thank you for the advice :) . I'm already committed to a Master's (in Management of Technology), so I'm putting 80 hours a week already, but I'll probably tone it down and start on Ruby and Python and Javascript :)

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 31, and I have coworkers in their late 30s and early 40s, working in a large multinational with legacy systems. The truth is, while it doesn't get that much mentally harder to learn new technologies, it is very hard psychologically. For someone used to a large paycheck, to being the go-to guy in the technology and set in their 9-to-5 ways, to get out of their comfort zone, and admit that what they know is no long…

I think you may be seeing a bit of a confirmation bias. Naturally with any group of people who stick it out in one company for a long time you are going to see "lifers". These people are complacent in there careers. They know they aren't getting fired and they are happy not going anywhere. As a result these people are not naturally life long learners either. I wouldn't use 40 something developers in a large multinati…

I'm not really sure I can agree that .NET isn't leading edge. For instance, it's been implementing dynamic language support, LINQ, and ASP.NET MVC is no slouch either.

As a framework, I'd say that it's actually pretty advanced.

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#99
Many software engineers will one day work for English Majors. Most English majors without a strong support network will one day work for Burger King. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Frankly, if you didn't work for Burger King at all before college, it might be worthwhile for you to work for them for a little while after, though some other gig in the food service industry is probably a better call.

Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 31, and I have coworkers in their late 30s and early 40s, working in a large multinational with legacy systems. The truth is, while it doesn't get that much mentally harder to learn new technologies, it is very hard psychologically. For someone used to a large paycheck, to being the go-to guy in the technology and set in their 9-to-5 ways, to get out of their comfort zone, and admit that what they know is no long…

I was in a similar boat, and I decided to take the pay cut and spend a few years building my way back up. I'm much happier this way than I ever would have been in a managerial role that I never wanted.

Thank you :) . However, I think I could be happy in a managerial role.

As long as I'm solving problems, facing challenges and feeling relevant, I don't believe I need to be the one doing the coding :)

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