ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license • Hacker News Board

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#131

Post by FpUser » Wed, Apr 12, 2023, 1:54 PM UTC

ejb999 wrote: post #123

Someone1234 wrote: post #55

I just want to state outright that OP was wronged, and I side with them. That being said; I dislike both full subscription (i.e. breaks on expiration) and lifetime licenses. Subscriptions are too expensive for software that rarely gets major investment and lifetime licenses are dishonest (e.g. company cannot work for free, so their funded is based on unlimited growth, which isn't realistic for most). My current favor…

+1 for naming jetbrains - I have always liked their way of doing business, including the substantial discount to renew each year - even in years when I don't use their tools much, I renew. Also specifically like how they remind me many times , and many months in advance that they are going to charge my credit card on my renewal date - unlike the scumbag companies that never want to draw attention to your upcoming ren…

+1 from me as well for jetbrains. I simply refuse to pay subscription for software. If it does not have perpetual license of the version I am buying and one year of upgrades then it is not on my computer.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#132

Post by rchaud » Wed, Apr 12, 2023, 1:55 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #99

krisoft wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point, and I largely agree with you. One trickynes is with the "This incentivizes them to deliver value" part. The problem is that if the software just "works" and there are no compelling new features the user will quite rationally stop buying new updates. Which incentivises the developer to make sure that either the software never really "just works" or that they hype up new features to create FOMO. They…

Perhaps a good case study here is/will be Affinity. They produce graphics software competing directly with Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign, and their core differentiator is that they don't do subscriptions - you pay up front, and get a regular, perpetual license in return. Few months ago, they released version 2 of their software suite. There are some new features and a host of UI and performance improvements, bu…

I'm an Affinity user too (Aff Publisher + Designer). I'm very happy with the one-time purchase. I felt a bit bad about not upgrading to V2, as I want to support the company. But GIMP works perfectly fine for me so I have not shelled out for Affinity Photo.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#133

Post by rchaud » Wed, Apr 12, 2023, 1:56 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #82

notwhereyouare wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's how the audible ripper I use works. I buy 1 version and get updates for a year and then i'm stuck at that specific version

And one of my favorite pieces of software, Sublime Text.

Sublime Text is like the modern equivalent of the WinZip 60-day trial.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#134

Post by ghaff » Wed, Apr 12, 2023, 1:57 PM UTC

jjnoakes wrote: post #124

dceddia wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's another way to go, and I considered doing that. The main thing I didn't like about that strategy was how I'd be sitting on lots of unused code between major releases. All the new features sitting on my SSD for months aren't helping any customers :/

Why can't you release features whenever you like under this model?

You can. But you also sort of want to hold anything really significant back for the next major rev.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#135

Post by dceddia » Wed, Apr 12, 2023, 1:57 PM UTC

jjnoakes wrote: post #124

dceddia wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's another way to go, and I considered doing that. The main thing I didn't like about that strategy was how I'd be sitting on lots of unused code between major releases. All the new features sitting on my SSD for months aren't helping any customers :/

Why can't you release features whenever you like under this model?

I was thinking if the model is: buy Version 1 for $99... then next year, Version 2 is out with lots of new features for the upgrade price of $79 -- well, then nothing really stops you from releasing new features under Version 1, but at some point you kinda have to hold something back for Version 2, or there won't be any reason to upgrade. So it shifts the incentives toward holding back big new features, and away from incremental updates.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#136

Post by innocenat » Wed, Apr 12, 2023, 1:57 PM UTC

corndoge wrote: post #127

ejb999 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for naming jetbrains - I have always liked their way of doing business, including the substantial discount to renew each year - even in years when I don't use their tools much, I renew. Also specifically like how they remind me many times , and many months in advance that they are going to charge my credit card on my renewal date - unlike the scumbag companies that never want to draw attention to your upcoming ren…

The key for getting a refund is to not deal with the company at all but rather initiate a credit card chargeback.

In many countries, chargeback require proof that you did not receive the service. Which make chargeback nearly impossible outside of outright scam.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#137

Post by porkbeer » Wed, Apr 12, 2023, 1:58 PM UTC

unsupp0rted wrote: post #34

Havoc wrote: post #27

The part that blows my mind is they found someone willing to click send on a "life-time is now two years" mail. I personally couldn't stomach that & I'm definitely no paragon of virtue.

One of my clients has admin staff that would click send on "decapitate a random person in the world" if the boss tells them to.

Maybe dont work for demonstrably unethical clients.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#138

Post by wongarsu » Wed, Apr 12, 2023, 1:59 PM UTC

asddubs wrote: post #109

dceddia wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the developer side I feel like this type of license makes the most sense to me too. After selling a desktop app with a license like that for a little while though, I’ve also unfortunately realized that not everyone understands it. I had a number of customers referring to it as a “subscription” (which it wasn’t, because it didn’t auto-renew and you could keep using the last version forever) or “lifetime” (which i…

I think the easiest way to communicate it is to just regularly increment your version number and then have people be able to buy version X. Like Photoshop, and really most software used to be sold.

Yeah, calling it a lifetime license to CoolSoft 7 or to CoolSoft 2023 is the easiest way out. It brings some seasonality however, since the duration of updates is now couple to when in the update cycle you purchase.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#139

Post by giancarlostoro » Wed, Apr 12, 2023, 1:59 PM UTC

Kbelicius wrote: post #31

giancarlostoro wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NFT has entered the chat. In all seriousness though, I think the only lifetime licenses that come to mind are probably ones like JetBrains and old software where you had the install medium on a disk and a key to install it with and it required no software updates, assuming the software doesn't need the internet to verify, you're pretty much guaranteed what you paid for. Don't you miss lifetime ownership of software l…

> NFT has entered the chat. And how would they help in this situation?

Was a joke about how it just sits there doing nothing.

Re: ManyCam dishonored my lifetime license

#140

Post by SturgeonsLaw » Wed, Apr 12, 2023, 2:00 PM UTC

planede wrote: post #63

KMnO4 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine this is one of those extremely common situations where the law doesn’t matter. Even if you are entitled to some compensation, how are you going to get it? The only recourse is taking them to court which will end up costing your time, money, and sanity.

I think it could be an easyish case for small claims. Bought software at X date, used it for Y years, expected to use it for a further Z years in professional career, and now you can only use it for 2 further years, instead of Z. Get atleast a refund for the years that you won't be able to use.

Cost of lifetime license: $39

Time used so far: 4 years

Time remaining with new license: 2 years

Time lost due to license change: 20 years

Damages awarded to the plaintiff: $30