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FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

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Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#131

Post by Namidairo »

flumpcakes wrote: post #81

While I have no doubt than basically anything from China is probably backdoored (and to the fault of western countries outsourcing manufacturing for cheap labour), what exactly has Huawei done? How do we know that the Cisco equipment also isn't backdoored and if I send a few malformed TCP packets it opens up its control plane on the receiving port? Compared to the last few decades, it seems like a strong hand banning…

A Chinese brand I looked at has most of their network equipment connect back via MQTT with TLS, for IoT things.

Except the agent had a pretty obvious command runner on one of the message handlers. I was a little afraid to ask them whether it was deliberate or just a really incompetently written backup update mechanism.

To be fair, I was looking for arbitrary command execution for my own purposes at the time...

I do get a decent chuckle when I see their OUI in scan results when out and about now. (About ~0.12% of the recorded results in Wigle it seems)

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#132

Post by FpUser »

reaperducer wrote: post #87
flumpcakes wrote: post #81

While I have no doubt than basically anything from China is probably backdoored (and to the fault of western countries outsourcing manufacturing for cheap labour), what exactly has Huawei done? How do we know that the Cisco equipment also isn't backdoored and if I send a few malformed TCP packets it opens up its control plane on the receiving port? Compared to the last few decades, it seems like a strong hand banning…

Your argument sounds like deflection and elementary school logic. If Cisco has problems, that should also be dealt with. But because Cisco has problems doesn't mean that Huawei shouldn't be dealt with. In Western cultures, we have the notion of "Two wrongs don't make a right." This is a classic Chinese government talking point. "Don't look at what we're doing. Look over there, instead!" For decades it's been using th…

""In Western cultures, we have the notion of "Two wrongs don't make a right."

I do not think it is specific to Western culture. And yes two wrongs definitely do not make it right and both must be punished. Now call me back when we see the first wrong being punished. We only seem to punish countries that fit very narrow criteria and murdering say hundreds of thousands is not the determining factor. Until then yes "Look over there" is a very valid argument.

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#133

Post by rgbrenner »

seydor wrote: post #124
SSJPython wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about it? The US is also the hegemon in Europe. The "West" just means the US and its network of alliances. Other Western countries may want good relations with China, but they need to take US views into account because the US bankrolls their defense and is also a very important trade partner. Large, strong countries do what they want and small, weak countries do what they must. That's the way it is and the way i…

Don't you think that 's a bit too arrogant? Why should germany support the US domination over Japan, when all they want is industrial materials through the indo-pacific route. I think the world was more fair during cold war, having 2 superpowers pushed both of them to keep each other in check. This one state world, seems worse

Since you brought it up in your example: US, Germany and Japans interests are aligned against China regarding the indo pacific trade route… china’s ambitions to claim all of the South China Sea seek to disrupt the trade route.. and the us helps protect that route by performing freedom of navigation exercises (which have a very real chance of sparking a war that the us alone would be responsible for).

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#134

Post by chrischen »

rgbrenner wrote: post #116
heavyset_go wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are taking action now because the West spent decades underestimating China, probably for xenophobic reasons. I'm willing to bet a lot of people assumed they weren't as capable as westerners and now it can't be denied. IMO, it was a classic mistake of underestimating a potential rival while stroking our own egos about how smart, capable and powerful we are in comparison. Reality finally trumped hubris.

I don’t think it’s xenophobia. The US helped China into the WTO. The dispute is really about the status of China. The wto allows developing countries to impose import restrictions and various other protections. China—number one by gdp ppp, or #72 by gdp ppp per capita- says they are still a developing country and don’t have to give other countries equal access to their market. The US disagrees. I know there are other…

The US isn’t a single consistent entity. US basically enabled modern day China by opening trade, but now that they are catching up it’s no longer advantageous to help them forward.

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#135

Post by chrischen »

rgbrenner wrote: post #126
SSJPython wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rival for hegemony in the Asia-Pacific (APAC) region. The current hegemon in this region is the US. It is the strongest APAC power by far due to its numerous military bases as well as its network of strong allies (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea). China seeks to displace the US as the hegemon in APAC. Naturally, the current hegemon doesn't take too kindly to that. So they view China as a rival.

China—so powerful that they believe they can rival the US… but also so weak that they should qualify for WTO protections for developing markets. At a certain point you have to question whether they believe in free trade at all.. or just paying lip service to it to make themselves rich.

The whole point of free trade is a no rules game to make yourself rich.

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#136

Post by FpUser »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #75
phpisthebest wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather Amazon focus on elimination of Counterfeits and Fraud, not enforcement of FCC protectionism

I'd rather live in a society where businesses follow the law - and if the laws don't make sense - we change them.

The only government I would vote for is the one where politicians above some level are directly responsible for the living standard of their population except that 1% part and corps. This of course does not exist. If it did stupid laws or twisting of the normal ones would not be tolerated.

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#137

Post by rgbrenner »

chrischen wrote: post #135
rgbrenner wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China—so powerful that they believe they can rival the US… but also so weak that they should qualify for WTO protections for developing markets. At a certain point you have to question whether they believe in free trade at all.. or just paying lip service to it to make themselves rich.

The whole point of free trade is a no rules game to make yourself rich.

No. There are definitely rules.. like equal access to markets, limits on tariffs, etc.

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#138

Post by kelnos »

heavyset_go wrote: post #108
flumpcakes wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nortel networks haven't been around for nearly a decade. I've seen lots of news about 5G/Huaewi and 'core networks' only in the recent years in western countries (UK/US mainly). However, I haven't seen anything published that really reflects new risks/major backdoored products. I wouldn't 100% trust anything built in China, but there must be some reason people are only taking action now? Unless it's just "better late…

People are taking action now because the West spent decades underestimating China, probably for xenophobic reasons. I'm willing to bet a lot of people assumed they weren't as capable as westerners and now it can't be denied. IMO, it was a classic mistake of underestimating a potential rival while stroking our own egos about how smart, capable and powerful we are in comparison. Reality finally trumped hubris.

It has nothing to do with xenophobia.

The Chinese government doesn't play fair, and the West has been letting them get away with it for decades. They take full advantage of open markets available in the rest of the world, but close their markets to outsiders; at best, outsiders can get a piece of the action, but only through the oversight and partial ownership of a local company. The idea that China is still a "developing nation" and should have special status and privileges is a joke.

While I won't claim that Western nations don't have issues with censorship and freedom of speech, the Chinese government punishes foreign corporations (economically) that say anything critical of China or its government. The Chinese government exports its propaganda and censorship policies through informal economic sanctions.

I'm not particularly interested in allowing an authoritarian government that pushes pervasive propaganda and censorship to become the next world hegemon. (I'll freely admit that the US is no saint in that role, but I think it should be obvious and defensible why I'd prefer the US in that position rather than China.)

Note that this is all about the Chinese government. I have no problems with Chinese people; by and large, those I've met on my few trips to China (granted, my last trip was over 10 years ago) and those I've met who travel to and live in the US have been good, friendly, intelligent people. It's perfectly reasonable to be against the constant, widespread actions of a foreign government without being branded a xenophobe.

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#139

Post by greatjack613 »

This should not come as a surprise to anyone here. The fact that people on HN still defend china when they clearly got their success through espionage and cheating just shows how much influence XI has on american institutions and social media. I hope everyone just wakes up in time so we can stop this nightmare before we lose everything we hold dear.

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#140

Post by chrischen »

rgbrenner wrote: post #137
chrischen wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of free trade is a no rules game to make yourself rich.

No. There are definitely rules.. like equal access to markets, limits on tariffs, etc.

Forcing equal access to markets is a limit on sovereignty (freedom). That's why the TPP got shut down. Equal access to markets in many cases just means total economic subjugation of weaker nations by commercial interests like the whole India colonial period.
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