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President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

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Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#131

Post by vincnetas »

88840-8855 wrote: post #70
MasterYoda wrote: post #28

I really hope the russian/kreml/putin war against Ukraine will end in a epic failure for them. I also hope that frozen russian assets in west can be confiscated to build up Ukraine again, russia has to be accountable and pay for all madness and horrific things they have done.

Oh yeah, super good idea. We had fantastic experience with humiliated nations before. It worked so well for Germany after WW1 /s FACT: the end of this war must be positive for the Russian people, no matter whether Russia loses or wins the military operation. Putin came to power because the West didnt help the former Soviet republics. If Russia is left alone humiliated again then we will have the next anti-western sys…

So you say that WWII did not humiliate Germany? Can we do same to Russia then?

What is your proposal to how not humiliate Russia? Russia already humiliated themselves by not wining this conflict for so long. In their book anything less than total conquest of Ukraine is humiliation.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#132

Post by tough »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #121
danielheath wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nukes are a possibility, but MAD has stopped us all using them for many years so far. As far as conventional arms go: Russia has quite a few planes, tanks, and artillery; however, so long as the USA wills it, the Ukraine will have more anti-air missiles, more anti-tank munitions, and more long-range rockets. In any long-range fight, being able to locate your enemy is key; the pentagons ability to identify the locatio…

Does MAD really protect Ukraine? Edit: suppose the old man has properly lost it. If Putin drops a tactical nuke on a Ukranian military position, will Nato really respond in kind? Seems like damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

well, be damned

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#133

Post by [deleted] »

dan-robertson wrote: post #100
withinboredom wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I think it’s just extremely untrue that the US is experiencing anything like the Russian brain drain (or indeed any net brain drain at all). The US does have a bunch of problems (eg the poorest people live terribly for such a rich country; political issues around polarisation, skilled immigration, etc) but I think they are basically insignificant when compared to Russia’s.

[deleted]

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#134

Post by wink »

camjw wrote: post #65
_ph_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ukraine can do it, if it gets supplied with the weapons to do it. Even with the weapons they got so far, they managed to hurt the Russian military a lot - hence the mobilization. They got some very powerful weapons, but still limited in number and choice. Just delivering long-range ammunition for HIMARS in large numbers might be enough to break any Russian offensive as all supply and all fixed positions were easy…

Calling Ukraine "The Ukraine" is a Russian tactic to make Ukraine seem less like a country and more like a region. Quoting from wikipedia: > However, since Ukraine's declaration of independence in 1991, [calling Ukraine "The Ukraine"] has become politicised and is now rarer, and style guides advise against its use. US ambassador William Taylor said that using "the Ukraine" implies disregard for Ukrainian sovereignty.…

FWIW, in German it's actually used with the definite article since.. forever I guess and maybe it's the same in other languages. I happen to know you don't use "the Ukraine" in English, but it's a hard habit to shake off - so this may not even be a case of any propaganda. (Just looked up the wikipedia article and there's also no mention of this being applicable, but you know, wikipedia...)

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#135

Post by phire »

yodsanklai wrote: post #13

Stupid question, but what does Putin want exactly? what will end the war?

There isn't really a "concession" you could give that would make Putin happy.

Whatever you give Putin, he will want more. You could give them all of Ukraine, and Putin would start plotting his next invasion on whatever country he wants next (Moldova, Latvia, Poland, Georgia, etc)

Ultimately, He wants the "right" to expand and grow the his new Russian Empire to at least the size of the old Russian Empire or the USSR without the US or the EU or NATO interfering and getting in his way.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#136

Post by saiya-jin »

danielheath wrote: post #77
the_gipsy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't Ukraine have a lot more to lose over time? Russia can just flatten the terrain, or ultimately nuke. The reverse isn't possible.

Nukes are a possibility, but MAD has stopped us all using them for many years so far. As far as conventional arms go: Russia has quite a few planes, tanks, and artillery; however, so long as the USA wills it, the Ukraine will have more anti-air missiles, more anti-tank munitions, and more long-range rockets. In any long-range fight, being able to locate your enemy is key; the pentagons ability to identify the locatio…

I am massively concerned that Trump may actually win next elections. I keep hearing that's not possible, Americans are not that stupid and so on. But he almost won second time and republicans across whole spectrum seem to love him despite his massive character flaws.

If that happens, US helps to Ukraine stops, period. I would expect Europe is left on its own and that may be a bad time for Ukraine and actually not only Ukraine.

I certainly hope all this is incorrect since I have family and life in Europe.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#137

Post by polotics »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #71
checkyoursudo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s basically Russia telling the west they are serious about escalating if they keep pushing. I think that's the message Russia believes it is conveying. The information I think they are really signaling (outside of the rhetoric), and what I suspect Nato sees, is that Russia is conceding that it cannot win and hoping its bluff will freeze the conflict, which I don't think it will do.

Russia remains a nuclear power. NATO should be and is careful. I agree they know they can’t win but they now need an exit ramp. That’s what I personally read in their posture. It would probably be wise to give them one.

Who is "they" in this dialectic? The Russian people definitely deserves a future. They could even win freedom from corruption, also win democracy, and even pluralism, thanks to the outcome of this war. They deserve no less. Vladimir and his cronies deserves a hefty wake-up call...

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#138

Post by sudhirj »

88840-8855 wrote: post #70
MasterYoda wrote: post #28

I really hope the russian/kreml/putin war against Ukraine will end in a epic failure for them. I also hope that frozen russian assets in west can be confiscated to build up Ukraine again, russia has to be accountable and pay for all madness and horrific things they have done.

Oh yeah, super good idea. We had fantastic experience with humiliated nations before. It worked so well for Germany after WW1 /s FACT: the end of this war must be positive for the Russian people, no matter whether Russia loses or wins the military operation. Putin came to power because the West didnt help the former Soviet republics. If Russia is left alone humiliated again then we will have the next anti-western sys…

More that sanctions or any other punishments must be focussed on the Putin regime and not the Russian population in general. And should end quickly if the regime changes.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#139

Post by pjc50 »

withinboredom wrote: post #73
willsmith72 wrote: post #64

This is really going to screw Russia for generations. Every young Russian I know has either already left, plans to leave, or has to stay but hates their leader. You don't get your country to turn into a superpower by losing the most educated and skilled of the young generations. I only hope as things get more desperate he doesn't feel trapped lash out with the nukes.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't think that's enough to counterbalance the flow in the other direction.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#140

Post by tough »

farseer wrote: post #108
lolc wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they could conquer Ukraine and effectively quell unrest, the Federation could be said to have come out stronger. That is very unlikely though, with the Ukrainian army getting effective support. If they manage to hold the land bridge to Krim and negotiate a cease-fire, it can be argued that they had limited success in their objectives. But at a huge economic and humanitarian cost. And in a nuclear war, nobody wins.…

Would the West intervene in a nuclear war limited to Ukrainian territory?

You know radioactivity residues travel fast, and to any direction right?
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