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President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

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Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#71

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

checkyoursudo wrote: post #52
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more a political signal sent to the west. Russia was designing the war in Ukraine as a special operation. That put some limits on what they could officially do. With the referendum in Donetsk and Luhansk, Russia is reframing the conflict as happening on Russian soil. That allows them to declare it a war and open the door to nuclear retaliation. Mobilising and calling it a proxy war play with this line. It’s basi…

> It’s basically Russia telling the west they are serious about escalating if they keep pushing. I think that's the message Russia believes it is conveying. The information I think they are really signaling (outside of the rhetoric), and what I suspect Nato sees, is that Russia is conceding that it cannot win and hoping its bluff will freeze the conflict, which I don't think it will do.

Russia remains a nuclear power. NATO should be and is careful.

I agree they know they can’t win but they now need an exit ramp. That’s what I personally read in their posture.

It would probably be wise to give them one.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#72

Post by orlp »

_ph_ wrote: post #33
TheWoodsy wrote: post #12

Their main propaganda news channel has already said (incorrectly) that they are already fighting NATO and US troops in the breakaway areas. Is it time to make this a reality? I really don't see it ending without it happening. russia has shown that it has no regard for the suffering of any troops of any nationality. So purely from a population perspective, Ukraine will fail eventually unless they can effectively force…

The Ukraine can do it, if it gets supplied with the weapons to do it. Even with the weapons they got so far, they managed to hurt the Russian military a lot - hence the mobilization. They got some very powerful weapons, but still limited in number and choice. Just delivering long-range ammunition for HIMARS in large numbers might be enough to break any Russian offensive as all supply and all fixed positions were easy…

FYI "The Ukraine" is a term pushed by Russian influences to make you think of it as a region (literally translated "the borderlands") as opposed to a sovereign state. The country is just called Ukraine.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#73

Post by withinboredom »

willsmith72 wrote: post #64

This is really going to screw Russia for generations. Every young Russian I know has either already left, plans to leave, or has to stay but hates their leader. You don't get your country to turn into a superpower by losing the most educated and skilled of the young generations. I only hope as things get more desperate he doesn't feel trapped lash out with the nukes.

No post body was provided.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#74

Post by ChildOfChaos »

the_gipsy wrote: post #42
_ph_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ukraine can do it, if it gets supplied with the weapons to do it. Even with the weapons they got so far, they managed to hurt the Russian military a lot - hence the mobilization. They got some very powerful weapons, but still limited in number and choice. Just delivering long-range ammunition for HIMARS in large numbers might be enough to break any Russian offensive as all supply and all fixed positions were easy…

Doesn't Ukraine have a lot more to lose over time? Russia can just flatten the terrain, or ultimately nuke. The reverse isn't possible.

It seems that way to me.

I'm not sure what the western forces game plan is and i'm not sure they actually want to help Ukraine too much, I think they are walking the fine line of wanting to hurt Russia enough and see what happens, but they don't want to truly arm Ukraine because if Russia really loses, they might just nuke.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#75

Post by lolc »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #41
saiya-jin wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will call them later. 300,000 noobs with minimal training, physique, crappy equipment, low morale and useless aparatchik leaders will be sent to meat grinder of eastern Ukraine. "Nas mnogo" strategy barely worked in WWII, with modern warfare (and continuing western aid) they won't make that much difference. High tech equipment in good numbers is what decides outcomes these days when armies clash. Plus Ukraine ca…

It’s more a political signal sent to the west. Russia was designing the war in Ukraine as a special operation. That put some limits on what they could officially do. With the referendum in Donetsk and Luhansk, Russia is reframing the conflict as happening on Russian soil. That allows them to declare it a war and open the door to nuclear retaliation. Mobilising and calling it a proxy war play with this line. It’s basi…

I don't think the signal was intended primarily for the international audience. Putin is under a lot of pressure from hawks in his own ranks to win this war. They were asking him why he isn't mobilising. And now they will be saying that it's not enough. I guess there won't be enough boots for the new conscripts, so this dynamic will be interesting to watch.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#76

Post by ConSeannery »

yodsanklai wrote: post #13

Stupid question, but what does Putin want exactly? what will end the war?

Wendover Productions "Why Russia Is Invading Ukraine" on YouTube provides some good info. Some reasons include: - They need to secure energy sources (natural gas) to ensure a future for their economy. Ukraine was threatening this business by beginning to get funding from Western companies to develop their natural gas industry - Geographically, losing Ukraine to NATO/the West would result in compromised defensive lines - Putin wants to reestablish the former united Soviet Union

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#77

Post by danielheath »

the_gipsy wrote: post #42
_ph_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ukraine can do it, if it gets supplied with the weapons to do it. Even with the weapons they got so far, they managed to hurt the Russian military a lot - hence the mobilization. They got some very powerful weapons, but still limited in number and choice. Just delivering long-range ammunition for HIMARS in large numbers might be enough to break any Russian offensive as all supply and all fixed positions were easy…

Doesn't Ukraine have a lot more to lose over time? Russia can just flatten the terrain, or ultimately nuke. The reverse isn't possible.

Nukes are a possibility, but MAD has stopped us all using them for many years so far.

As far as conventional arms go: Russia has quite a few planes, tanks, and artillery; however, so long as the USA wills it, the Ukraine will have more anti-air missiles, more anti-tank munitions, and more long-range rockets.

In any long-range fight, being able to locate your enemy is key; the pentagons ability to identify the location of Russian positions appears to be unsurpassed. So long as they are passing this intel to the Ukraine, along with long-range weapons to act on it, any attempt at a Russian advance will be done without access to local command/supply posts.

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#78

Post by ralphhughes »

TheWoodsy wrote: post #40
ralphhughes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Their main propaganda news channel has already said (incorrectly) that they are already fighting NATO and US troops in the breakaway areas. Thats interesting, I'm not doubting you but I would like to see the original source if possible, got a link?

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/157171227106307277...

Thanks, someone is doing a useful service translating Russian TV for the rest of us!

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#79

Post by fractallyte »

yodsanklai wrote: post #13

Stupid question, but what does Putin want exactly? what will end the war?

Well... it's complicated by the firehose of Russian propaganda, but their actions make it clear: eradication and assimilation of Ukrainian culture and nation, and the seizure of Ukraine's territory and resources - 'genocide' sums it up succinctly.

Putin's regime has demonstrated that the lives of ordinary Russians are meaningless in the pursuit of its political goals - just like every Russian/Soviet regime before it. This implies that the war can only end with a total defeat for Russia or Ukraine.

Ukraine is in an existential fight, while Russia is in a political one. Disregard what anyone claims about corruption in Ukraine: its decentralized democracy has enabled it to survive so far, while Russia is (literally and metaphorically) disintegrating.

Russia is bigger with limitless brutality; Ukraine is determined and smart. We'll have to see which of these qualities brings victory...

Re: President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in Russia

#80

Post by [deleted] »

durnygbur wrote: post #31
yrgulation wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nein. Germany will block it. See, its very convenient to have a weak east europe.

Their automotive industry and demography are on catastrophic crossroads, ~100 mln of people and the land between Germany and Russia are just such convenient resources.

[deleted]
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