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Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

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Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#131

Post by mmarq »

JetSetWilly wrote: post #121
mmarq wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UK is easily among the most tolerant and least racist of European countries. In international studies, the UK scores very highly on all such measures, usually much better than continental European countries. The point is not that the British society is more or less tolerant than the Italian society (and it certainly is more tolerant). The problem is that as a European I’ve never experienced xenophobia until 201…

I'm sorry, I have extreme doubt to what extent these anecdotes are true and have no choice but to reject them when there's no corroborating evidence. In my experience, I see about 100x as many people trying to shame folk with the "brexit=racist xenophobe" brush than I witness actual incidents of such behaviour. At the end of the day it is all anecdotes from people who have an ideological axe to grind. I'd be more int…

It is not clear what “ideological axe to grind” I or my friend may have nor why we should make up anecdotes. Convincing you or anybody on this site of anything doesn’t advance any item on my agenda.

Said that, is police data enough evidence?

https://news.npcc.police.uk/releases/hate-crime-undermines-t...

> National Police Chiefs’ Council Lead for Hate Crime, Assistant Chief Constable Mark Hamilton said:

“We now have a clear indication of the increases in the reporting of hate crime nationally and can see that there has been a sharp rise in recent weeks. This is unacceptable and it undermines the diversity and tolerance we should instead be celebrating.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-race-hate...

You don’t have to reply, if you think the police are all crazy leftists who hate brexiters.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#132

Post by collaborative »

biscotte_ wrote: post #122
collaborative wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't pretend to reference the parent comment with what you say by falsely quoting "racial abuse" - the parent comment never said that. And we don't know what "racial abuse" referred to in the original comment.

« my children and wife started to experience a level of racially motivated abuse that we had not seen before.« To which both people replied saying « same for us ». You’re welcome.

Still making stuff up. Read again

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#133

Post by gambiting »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #127
mmarq wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windrush is not besides the point, because the UK government tried to repeat the same exercise with EU citizens. They even went as far as sending deportation letters to hundreds of random EU citizens, including doctors, university researchers, journalists and professionals (ie people with enough influence to get the attention of the press and with enough money to pay for a lawyer https://www.theguardian.com/politics/…

You're trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill, and again I don't understand why. An error to a few people (100 out of millions) and that resulted in nothing at all is not evidence of nefarious policy. Sending payslips and council tax bills is hardly a problem for anyone who's been living and working in the UK, and that was a standard EU-wide procedure. It was not designed to be difficult or make people fail, it…

>>and that resulted in nothing at all is not evidence of nefarious policy.

First of all, it doesn't result in nothing. I'm an EU citizen living in the UK and even though I haven't received a letter these sort of things make me deeply uncomfortable, to a point where this might be contributing to anxiety. So no, it's not nothing, these actions have consequences.

And what do you mean it's not evidence of nefarious policy??? The policy is nefarous explicitly, by design, and publicly as well! The famour "hostile environment" established by Theresa May is exactly this - hostile. It's meant to make you feel unwelcome as an immigrant.

>>there is no reason to invent problems where there are none.

I really really wish I could have such a positive outlook on life where I could honestly go on an internet forum and say "invent problems where there are none" when it comes to EU citizens living in the UK. I'm jealous frankly.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#134

Post by JetSetWilly »

mmarq wrote: post #131
JetSetWilly wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, I have extreme doubt to what extent these anecdotes are true and have no choice but to reject them when there's no corroborating evidence. In my experience, I see about 100x as many people trying to shame folk with the "brexit=racist xenophobe" brush than I witness actual incidents of such behaviour. At the end of the day it is all anecdotes from people who have an ideological axe to grind. I'd be more int…

It is not clear what “ideological axe to grind” I or my friend may have nor why we should make up anecdotes. Convincing you or anybody on this site of anything doesn’t advance any item on my agenda. Said that, is police data enough evidence? https://news.npcc.police.uk/releases/hate-crime-undermines-t... > National Police Chiefs’ Council Lead for Hate Crime, Assistant Chief Constable Mark Hamilton said: “We now have…

Those are all in the few weeks since 2016 referendum. It was not a sustained increase, and further it was in a period of national hysteria following the vote when such issues were common currency.

2021 hate crimes are not above those of eg 2014 so I fail to see how the UK has become some xenophobic country.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#135

Post by gambiting »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #93
klelatti wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all countries have policies that have led to systematic deportation of significant numbers of their citizens who have the legal right to be in the country. You've provided a personal view of your own experience - fair enough - but it's not a 'reality check' on the point made in the comment you replied to.

Windrush is a diversion and strawman argument. The topic is the impact of Brexit and immigration procedures in general, and I believe I replied on point. I don't understand the level of emotional reactions which border on hysteria, frankly. Again, the UK has the right to control immigration like all countries have, and it is relatively straightforward and simple compared to many others. I am a EU citizen in the UK: y…

>>This is not the end of the world. That's the reality check.

I feel like you're using these sentences to just say "suck it up and deal with it" and that's just really harsh for someone who feels like the rug has been pulled from under them. Making this country their home, and now being treated differently.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#136

Post by raxxorrax »

yarcob wrote: post #74
beardedman wrote: post #30

A palpable amount of entitlement coming from the author. I like it (sarcasm). > can you account for all your international travels over the past 10 years Well, absolutely. > It has now become a long and challenging obstacle race It has, or is it maybe quite normal? > But it’s not only the UK — the United States has also made it difficult for founders to immigrate and settle in Silicon Valley. Like the new post-Brexit…

People in the EU are used to free movement. In my opinion it's one of the greatest political accomplishments of recent history. Before Schengen, travelling across the border always carried the risk of meeting a grumpy border control agent and being subjected to abusive searches or interrogations. People not letting you past the border because they didn't find the right stamp in your passport and stuff like that. Afte…

I think people honestly reflected if that convenience is worth opening themselves up to legislative decision making.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#137

Post by raxxorrax »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #46
moogly wrote: post #27

> demands that are almost impossible to meet (can you account for all your international travels over the past 10 years?) Yes, easily. That's some hyperbolic braggadocio. If you're a maniacal globetrotter, sure, I can see it being annoying or maybe even difficult, but "almost impossible"? Get a grip.

I can account for all my intercontinental international travelling since 1980, since I kept all my passports. But how would I ever be able to account for international trips, where id was sufficient (so no stamp) or didn't need id in the first place, which is mostly the case since 2008?

You just don't mention it.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#138

Post by biscotte_ »

rich_sasha wrote: post #23
biscotte_ wrote: post #6

Immigration was not the main reason of voting Brexit. UKIP is not 51% of the UK electorate. I am surprised to see that, years after that vote, there are still gross misinformation circulating around it.

I felt in most pro-Brexit messages, there was an undercurrent of "...because we are better" or "and then they won't steal your jobs". EU parliament? Full of foreigners. Immigration? All foreigners. What's wrong with the steel industry? Foreigners working cheaply in other countries, or undercutting honest British workers here in Britain. That's not to say there aren't adverse effects of internationalisation, or to bel…

One of the big thing that triggered the EU debate os the inability to expel Abu Al I dont know what, famous pro-Al Qaida preacher that could not be expelled because of EU laws, and bragged about being housed by the UK taxpayer while preaching Jihad quietly.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#139

Post by mmarq »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #127
mmarq wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windrush is not besides the point, because the UK government tried to repeat the same exercise with EU citizens. They even went as far as sending deportation letters to hundreds of random EU citizens, including doctors, university researchers, journalists and professionals (ie people with enough influence to get the attention of the press and with enough money to pay for a lawyer https://www.theguardian.com/politics/…

You're trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill, and again I don't understand why. An error to a few people (100 out of millions) and that resulted in nothing at all is not evidence of nefarious policy. Sending payslips and council tax bills is hardly a problem for anyone who's been living and working in the UK, and that was a standard EU-wide procedure. It was not designed to be difficult or make people fail, it…

No, it’s not a standard procedure in any EU country I’m aware of. I’ve never heard of anybody outside of the UK sending payslips and doctor notes and reference letters and mobile phone bills to prove their residence status. If hundreds of thousands of people weren’t at risk of deportation, the Settlement Scheme would not have been necessary.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#140

Post by mmarq »

JetSetWilly wrote: post #134
mmarq wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not clear what “ideological axe to grind” I or my friend may have nor why we should make up anecdotes. Convincing you or anybody on this site of anything doesn’t advance any item on my agenda. Said that, is police data enough evidence? https://news.npcc.police.uk/releases/hate-crime-undermines-t... > National Police Chiefs’ Council Lead for Hate Crime, Assistant Chief Constable Mark Hamilton said: “We now have…

Those are all in the few weeks since 2016 referendum. It was not a sustained increase, and further it was in a period of national hysteria following the vote when such issues were common currency. 2021 hate crimes are not above those of eg 2014 so I fail to see how the UK has become some xenophobic country.

I should remind you that this started with you saying I was making up anecdotes because I had an ideological axe to grind. Now you are moving the target. Before we go there, would you admit that the Brexit referendum caused an increase of xenophobic incidents now that we have proof that it did?
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