Twitter has lost liability protection in India, government says • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter has lost liability protection in India, government says

#131

Post by BuyMyBitcoins » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

bronzeage wrote: post #27

HappyTypist wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you imagine the Department of Justice declaring Twitter to be no longer protected under section 230, after flagging Trump's tweets? This feels so, so wrong.

Yes. It feels pretty right that you can't claim you're not editorializing if you decide to censure the leader of the country because of arbitrary reasons, like claiming coronavirus came from a lab is a conspiracy theory. What happens in India is actually the opposite, it's the government requiring the censuring. I'm always on the side of free speech. It shouldn't be up to Twitter to decide if coronavirus came from th…

Near the beginning of the pandemic people were told to sanitize surfaces thoroughly as a way to inhibit the spread of Covid. Many people had doubts about this guidance, but if you tweeted that such measures were ineffective, Twitter would censor you and/or label you as a spreader of misinformation. Months later, a study finally confirmed that the chances of catching covid from a contaminated surface was extremely low. Therefore, sanitizing surfaces was no longer recommended or necessary. But it’s not like Twitter’s trust and safety team is going to go back and unban you in light of this.

The key takeaway is, if you are comfortable with Twitter taking such actions with potential ‘misinformation’ then you must also accept that what is considered correct at any point in time is subject to a potential reversal. The staff at Twitter is just as fallible as the rest of us.

Re: Twitter has lost liability protection in India, government says

#132

Post by alex_smart » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

potamic wrote: post #123

alex_smart wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Today, saying that cow dung does not cure covid, can land you in jail because it goes against the government's narrative. I overall agree with the point that many indian authorities have been using laws to punish dissent, but that is a little disingenuous. The specific context in that case was that those comments were made about the death of a BJP leader. So, those people were jailed for mocking the death of a polit…

It was done in poor taste indeed, but really blatant abuse of the National Security Act. This does appear to be more of a political move than anything. And there in lies the problem when such laws with broad interpretations go into effect, a government in power can leverage it to their gains. All they need is a technicality on which to trap someone.

Actually, there is a much more sinister systematic problem underneath this, which imo makes this sort of political abuse of law to curtail dissent seem like a minor issue in comparison.

India seems to have completely given up on any attempt to genuinely implement common law principles that judicial systems worldwide are based on. Instead of conviction and eventual prison being the goal (along with the presumption of innocence until conviction), our system seems to rely mainly on pre-conviction detention as a deterrent for criminal activities.

All relevant participants in the system (namely the police, the judiciary, the criminals and the citizens) have given in and accepted the fact that convictions are hard and extremely rare to come by. Instead, the process itself is the punishment. The goal of the police is to keep everyone in jail for as long as they can. Judges also regularly deny bail to the accused when they think that there is some preliminary evidence. And the citizens also join in this game by asking for ever stringend laws that make getting bails difficult for more and more cases. (I think most people in India don't even realize that "non-bailable" is just supposed to mean that bail is not automatic, but to be given on the consideration of a magistrate.)

Re: Twitter has lost liability protection in India, government says

#133

Post by bosswipe » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #131

bronzeage wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It feels pretty right that you can't claim you're not editorializing if you decide to censure the leader of the country because of arbitrary reasons, like claiming coronavirus came from a lab is a conspiracy theory. What happens in India is actually the opposite, it's the government requiring the censuring. I'm always on the side of free speech. It shouldn't be up to Twitter to decide if coronavirus came from th…

Near the beginning of the pandemic people were told to sanitize surfaces thoroughly as a way to inhibit the spread of Covid. Many people had doubts about this guidance, but if you tweeted that such measures were ineffective, Twitter would censor you and/or label you as a spreader of misinformation. Months later, a study finally confirmed that the chances of catching covid from a contaminated surface was extremely low…

I don't think your story about Twitter banning skepticism about surface cleaning is true. I remember being involved in several long Twitter threads on that topic with no one being banned.

Re: Twitter has lost liability protection in India, government says

#134

Post by worker_thread » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

kapuasuite wrote: post #112

worker_thread wrote: post #83

There is definitely something going on with Indian Govt and Twitter. When the farmer's protest was on its peak, on my timeline I saw Jack Dorsey's activity liking tweets critical and mocking the current govt. I was totally shocked by Jack Dorsey's passive behaviour - you need to model and exhibit non neutral stance especially when you are the messenger of the information. Needless to say, with great power comes great…

>I always give benefit of doubt where it's due, but Twitter has definitely something sinister going with their Indian Operations. If Indian companies goes abroad they are expected to follow local laws, and if Twitter wants to operate in India it must give way to the law of the land. Do you believe the Indian government's policies are sinister as well? If not I don't see how this is anything other than apologia dresse…

Well, I think the Indian Citizens should decide if their Elected Government has sinister policies or not, and what remedies they have under the democratic processes & constitution. I am not big fan of Modi or pro any political party, but he did not come to power by force. He was elected with a great majority and mandate under what is touted as world's largest democracy.

Coming back to my argument, Twitter should follow land of the law and if not should cease Indian operations. I'd love to hear your counter argument to this.

Re: Twitter has lost liability protection in India, government says

#135

Post by LatteLazy » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 3:25 PM UTC

naruvimama wrote: post #8

Twitter is put on par with newspapers, because they do gatekeeping and have accepted bias. Twitter can not have the cake and eat it too. There is nothing sinister just the laws kicking in. You wouldn't want google manipulating search results and then claim to be neutral.

Twitter don't do any of the things you're claiming. I don't know why you think they do.

Re: Twitter has lost liability protection in India, government says

#136

Post by alarak » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

potamic wrote: post #37

I don't know if many people realize, but this is a pivotal moment for freedom of speech in India. The archaic IT act and National Security Act are already being severely abused to arrest journalists and activists, and the new 2021 rules take this to a completely new level. What they are essentially going for is unrestricted authority on content takedown and traceability of originator of content which will force compa…

Are you imlpying that Twitter is somehow a beacon and saviour of free speech?

Re: Twitter has lost liability protection in India, government says

#137

Post by zackees » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 3:39 PM UTC

potamic wrote: post #37

I don't know if many people realize, but this is a pivotal moment for freedom of speech in India. The archaic IT act and National Security Act are already being severely abused to arrest journalists and activists, and the new 2021 rules take this to a completely new level. What they are essentially going for is unrestricted authority on content takedown and traceability of originator of content which will force compa…

Twitter is a foreign propaganda outlet that meddles in elections and bans politicians it disagrees with.

Your entire soap box misses this elephant in the room. Twitter already revealed what it was in the 2020 US election. Indian doesn’t need a globalist corporation who won’t obey its laws in its territory.

Twitter ceded the moral high ground and now if India is to survive it needs to replace the big tech giant services with Indian versions that reflect its culture and respect its laws and most importantly, won’t end up banning half the country including the president when they go against the ever increasing TOS.

Re: Twitter has lost liability protection in India, government says

#138

Post by zackees » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

kumarvvr wrote: post #47

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does google claim to be neutral? Does twitter? Why should the attempt to remove some harmful content from their platform create a requirement to be absolutely perfect at doing so? Was there any doubt that twitter had the technical capabilities to remove some tweets? If you ever help a person, are you then required to help any other person in the same situation? What's the outcome you want? Do you believe it's possibl…

They do. In testimony afyer testimony, they swear they are neutral and only censor illegal materials like trafficking or porn.

This. Same thing in the United States. They swore they were neutral and the media mocked everyone who claimed bias. Then when the tech giants went full propaganda for the left the media just switched narratives that this was their right all along.

Re: Twitter has lost liability protection in India, government says

#139

Post by worker_thread » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

mlnj wrote: post #93

worker_thread wrote: post #83

There is definitely something going on with Indian Govt and Twitter. When the farmer's protest was on its peak, on my timeline I saw Jack Dorsey's activity liking tweets critical and mocking the current govt. I was totally shocked by Jack Dorsey's passive behaviour - you need to model and exhibit non neutral stance especially when you are the messenger of the information. Needless to say, with great power comes great…

>I saw Jack Dorsey's activity liking tweets critical and mocking the current govt. >but passively liking and expressing your political likings and stance as CEO of twitter is is not cool & ethical. Let's flip the script for a second here. Is a CEO allowed to like a positive story about the Indian leader? Can he retweet a cause he might care about (which many others might not)? Does this mean that CEOs abstain from ta…

> Let's flip the script for a second here. Is a CEO allowed to like a positive story about the Indian leader? Can he retweet a cause he might care about (which many others might not)? Does this mean that CEOs abstain from taking part in public discourse or be called as not 'neutral'?

Well, you missed very important piece of context from my argument, 'at the peak of farmer's protest' . You already know the sentiments are running high, there is lot of misinformation, wide disconnect between ground reality and digital narrative. A little act of nudge or sign can trigger violence and get people killed on the street. Well, then I am looking at the CEO of the company that is carrying all of this information wether it is true or false, and how he behaves and if chooses sides wether correct or wrong.

> Who is allowed to be a flag bearer for free speech?

In my opinion, anyone who understand that free speech has its limitations, I am allowed to say whatever I want in certain context and situation but staying within reason.

Anyone who understands, the difference between shouting 'Hey, I got little firecracker on me' on an Airplane vs someone at a child's birthday party. Some things under different context trigger different reactions. It's not very hard to understand. Now imagine Jack Dorsey liking tweets of a person supporting the group that supports the ideology of those who attacked Capital Hill. Not sure about how other Indian Citizens feel about it, being an NRI of 15+ years I took hoisting of religious flag on Red Fort as an attack on democracy and also akin to attack on Capitol Hill as well.

Re: Twitter has lost liability protection in India, government says

#140

Post by freedomben » Tue, Jul 06, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

bosswipe wrote: post #133

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Near the beginning of the pandemic people were told to sanitize surfaces thoroughly as a way to inhibit the spread of Covid. Many people had doubts about this guidance, but if you tweeted that such measures were ineffective, Twitter would censor you and/or label you as a spreader of misinformation. Months later, a study finally confirmed that the chances of catching covid from a contaminated surface was extremely low…

I don't think your story about Twitter banning skepticism about surface cleaning is true. I remember being involved in several long Twitter threads on that topic with no one being banned.

Just because you didn't see it happen, doesn't mean it didn't happen. If we accept your report at face value. all you've proven is that their algorithm isn't 100% comprehensive regardless of impact/number of followers of the people, etc.

It seems far more reasonable to me that if POTUS or $randomCelebrity tweets something it will get more scrutiny from the moderation efforts at Twitter than I would if I tweeted the same thing.