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Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

nature.com

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Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#131

Post by dharma1 »

flobosg wrote: post #69
rantwasp wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, but no. while it’s technically the same protein, the way it was optimized differs (not by much but it’s different). the vaccine itself has the instructions to produce something that resembles the spike protein (to which your immune system goes in overdrive and generates antibodies)

> while it’s technically the same protein Not technically, it’s actually the same protein/polypeptide sequence in both cases, 100% identical, including the proline mutations that stabilize the prefusion conformation. You can check that easily by translating and aligning in silico both coding RNA sequences. > the way it was optimized differs (not by much but it’s different) I’m assuming that you’re referring to the co…

Does this mean you can mix the two vaccines - ie. take two shots of moderna, and a later in the year a booster shot of (updated) Pfizer/BnT?

So far I haven’t seen conclusive information about mixing the vaccines, but I think that will be the reality for booster shots late this year/early next year in the UK.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#132

Post by georgeplusplus »

lamontcg wrote: post #61
vmception wrote: post #33

I literally saw the opposite headline about Pzifer versus a strain in India today The actual article said "modest antibody evading capabilities“ I hate that the internet has become this way

"modest antibody evading capabilities“ This generally means that a pseudovirus built with the mutated spike escapes some monoclonal antibodies and has reduced neutralization titers against convalescent sera, which is fairly normal and doesn't add up to an escape mutation. When it mutates enough to form an actual escape mutation that will probably come at a cost to the virus for transmissibility/virulence/viral load b…

I’m curious, what is your education background in?

Do you have some sort of medical education or this is a regurgitation of some sources you’ve read as a hobbyist?

I ask this because you seem to talk from a place of authority and fact and i respect that but typically thought of Ycomb as a place comp sci folks usually congregate.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#133

Post by rivo »

simonCGN wrote: post #65

It it a Biontech vaccine. Pfizer is only the manufacturer. After all, you also do not call the MacBook a Foxconn Laptop.

In Germany, almost everyone refers to it as the Biontech vaccine. For obvious reasons. I would even go so far as to say that most people here don't realize it's the same as the "Pfizer vaccine". (On the other hand, the Moderna vaccine is referred to as the "Moderna vaccine".)

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#134

Post by takeda »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #92
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very TLDR response to this is that MRNA is temporary and not self-replicating. Within a few hours of being administered, all the MRNA in the vaccine has been broken down by the body into amino acids. MRNA can't mutate because it doesn't replicate. It just produces proteins.

Thank You, that is what I needed to hear and it sounds reasonable, what sort of proteins does it produce? Just the spiked ones or longer strands like DNA? Could You also offer up another TL;DR answer as to why the booster seems to present significantly more side effects? Thanks

The side effects you get is your body immune system fighting an intruder. The reason why second shot is typically worse is because your body already produced antibodies so when you get 2nd shot it immediately goes into attack mode.

BTW: different people have different immune systems, and their body reacts differently. I got my first dose in the morning. By afternoon I just felt tired and wanted sleep (I felt like I didn't sleep the previous night). I went to sleep and next day felt normal. For 2nd dose the same thing happened, except I felt like that one extra day. My vaccine was Pfizer.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#135

Post by chitowneats »

doktorhladnjak wrote: post #126
chitowneats wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you live in the West, we are all taking the same few vaccines. The trials are not complete for any of the big 3. The specifics of the legality vary from country to country. It typically takes nearly a decade to approve a new vaccine.

A major portion of that typical 10 year approval process is running a clinical trial where enough people get sick to have statistically significant results. When the trials for all the EUA vaccines were run last year, COVID was extremely widespread. That dramatically shortened how long trials needed to run to prove effectiveness.

If the trials were comprehensive enough to prove both efficacy and safety, why did they not catch the AZ & JnJ blood clotting issues? One theory is that these problems primarily afflict those under 40 and this population was not adequately represented in the clinical trials.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#136

Post by flobosg »

dharma1 wrote: post #131
flobosg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while it’s technically the same protein Not technically, it’s actually the same protein/polypeptide sequence in both cases, 100% identical, including the proline mutations that stabilize the prefusion conformation. You can check that easily by translating and aligning in silico both coding RNA sequences. > the way it was optimized differs (not by much but it’s different) I’m assuming that you’re referring to the co…

Does this mean you can mix the two vaccines - ie. take two shots of moderna, and a later in the year a booster shot of (updated) Pfizer/BnT? So far I haven’t seen conclusive information about mixing the vaccines, but I think that will be the reality for booster shots late this year/early next year in the UK.

While the spike protein is the same, there are differences in the overall formulation and delivery system. An additional booster shot from a different mRNA vaccine should be safe, but still needs to be evaluated. I wouldn’t be surprised if trials are already underway.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#138

Post by bawolff »

chitowneats wrote: post #135
doktorhladnjak wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major portion of that typical 10 year approval process is running a clinical trial where enough people get sick to have statistically significant results. When the trials for all the EUA vaccines were run last year, COVID was extremely widespread. That dramatically shortened how long trials needed to run to prove effectiveness.

If the trials were comprehensive enough to prove both efficacy and safety, why did they not catch the AZ & JnJ blood clotting issues? One theory is that these problems primarily afflict those under 40 and this population was not adequately represented in the clinical trials.

Blood clots happen at a rate of something like 1 in 100,000 people, the trial had something like 20,000 people getting the vaccine in it. Statistically its not surprising it wasn't caught. That the risk is probably not equally distributed just furthers that.

For the trial to pick up the blood clots, it would probably have to administer the vaccine to at least half a million people if not more (and you would need other people for the placebo arm). If the size of your trial is a significant portion of a medium sized country, you are not really running a trial but just giving out a vaccine.

The trial established it works, and any safety concerns are rare enough that the risk of not just getting covid but getting covid and having severe illness or dying from covid, is higher for most people. There is no 100% garuntees in life, the best we can hope for is showing that the risk is less than the alternative.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#139

Post by johnchristopher »

dharma1 wrote: post #131
flobosg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while it’s technically the same protein Not technically, it’s actually the same protein/polypeptide sequence in both cases, 100% identical, including the proline mutations that stabilize the prefusion conformation. You can check that easily by translating and aligning in silico both coding RNA sequences. > the way it was optimized differs (not by much but it’s different) I’m assuming that you’re referring to the co…

Does this mean you can mix the two vaccines - ie. take two shots of moderna, and a later in the year a booster shot of (updated) Pfizer/BnT? So far I haven’t seen conclusive information about mixing the vaccines, but I think that will be the reality for booster shots late this year/early next year in the UK.

I remember reading they had a different something on the scale of ten in the recipe though.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#140

Post by killingtime74 »

georgeplusplus wrote: post #132
lamontcg wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"modest antibody evading capabilities“ This generally means that a pseudovirus built with the mutated spike escapes some monoclonal antibodies and has reduced neutralization titers against convalescent sera, which is fairly normal and doesn't add up to an escape mutation. When it mutates enough to form an actual escape mutation that will probably come at a cost to the virus for transmissibility/virulence/viral load b…

I’m curious, what is your education background in? Do you have some sort of medical education or this is a regurgitation of some sources you’ve read as a hobbyist? I ask this because you seem to talk from a place of authority and fact and i respect that but typically thought of Ycomb as a place comp sci folks usually congregate.

Maybe you should ask for sources instead. Authority is the wrong thing to trust in science
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