India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi • Hacker News Board

Re: India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi

#131

Post by intended » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 4:03 AM UTC

quantgenius wrote: post #105

dragonsh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again you are parroting the same national agenda of the current Indian government of a Hindu state and Hindu way of living forcibly forced on every community in India. Recent example of local government passing laws to support groups and Organization who kill people who eat beef, another example of people of different religion marrying needs approval from state government (calling it law against love jihad). Not sure…

Beef consumption has been forbidden in most Indian states since independence and supported by all political parties. It’s a state issue. The Central government cannot legislate on the subject, it’s on the state list of subjects. You are criticizing the central government for a law a bunch of state governments passed decades ago!! There is a Hindu Marriage Act and other religious marriage acts. The difference is all b…

But it isn't abolished in all states, and India is the largest exporter of beef. Beef politics is new and a recent BJP/Modi/Adityanath invention.

It is the same tactics the British used to divide the country, and simply used as a tool to target Muslims.

The fact is that Hindus eat beef and there is no religious proscription against it, that is the whole point of "Hinduism being a way of life".

Secondly - old cows are not a resource, and farmers do not care about them. You cannot support their population without making cows useless to farmers. So cows get slaughtered.

The efforts made to politicize this has lead to herds of cows destroying farmers and farm land. Now that the attention of the population is away from cows, I bet farmers and politicians are busy shipping cows to be butchered once again.

Its pretty amazing that no one wonders who is selling these cows to be killed, it only becomes an issue when muslims eat meat.

Re: India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi

#132

Post by quantgenius » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 4:03 AM UTC

sabman83 wrote: post #96

quantgenius wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

“ If anything the Indian media absolutely loves to troll and embarass the government, “...” I would suggest the media in India is far freer of government influence than the mainstream media in the United States” This above argument is a joke. A good majority of the mainstream media in India are paid for and/or afraid of the current government. There is plenty to be said about this but I want to stick with farm bill i…

These articles are precisely the kind of trolling a lot of Indian media does.

There is a law that authorizes the government to set an MSP. That is precisely all an actual piece of legislation should do. Governments and administrative bureaucracies need flexibility to function. The details in any sane government are worked out by administrative rule making which is constrained by other laws.

This authority is used by the government and has been used by the government to set an MSP every year for 70 years with the MSP constrained by other legislation that also constrains other budgetary activity.

Or do you think instead parliament should instead figure out the MSP for 2050 now or maybe have a legislative session including a massive lobbying free for all by the buyers and sellers every year. I’d rather have the MSPs set in a rule based fashion with some limited and rarely used discretionary authority to change the rule based levels as is the case under the law now.

Under the law, all parties have to abide by the MSP, period and in any event even if they didn’t, which they have to do, the farmers can get the MSP at the mandis and directly from government buyers. Why protest? If the new buyers won’t pay up, don’t sell to them.

Have you ever in the history of the world, heard of any bona-fide business person acting in good faith, protesting a new buyer, who was previously prevented from buying their product by legislation, entering the market? The actual farmers, the vast silent majority, are, if anything happy to see this happen.

Re: India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi

#133

Post by intended » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 4:06 AM UTC

eklavya wrote: post #124

davchana wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I want to see RSS every year as much as a True Indian want to see Pakistan Independence Day parade. Never. RSS did not hoist Tiranga till 2002. Don't you know or you conveniently ignore?

Wow, that seems to be correct. I wonder why they would do that. In my childhood I went to an RSS school and we used to hoist the national flag all the time. Strange.

The RSS does not want India, they want Bharat, they are for a Hindu nation. This isn't even a hidden fact, but in every basic dossier on India.

Re: India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi

#134

Post by quantgenius » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 4:08 AM UTC

selimthegrim wrote: post #97

quantgenius wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a democratic country, if you want to change policy you need to get elected. If you are a civil servant, you can advise but if the elected decision makers decide otherwise you either execute the orders or you resign. Allowing someone who refused to execute legal orders and who publicly expressed dissent to be transferred in this situation is actually recognition that healthy debate is good and speaking out in a dem…

>because the Supreme Court of India like most of the silent majority in India understands that a citizen's rights only exist so long as the State itself exists. There is basic structure doctrine, no? Otherwise why not just have Emergency again > The majority of state citizens of Kashmir, certainly a majority of the residents and descendants of residents of Kashmir in the 1970s, today resides outside Kashmir. Most lef…

No, all Kashmiris are state subjects. However virtually all pandits, about 40% of the population in 1970 and about 35% of other Kashmiris have left the state and that is a majority. Kashmir, the state is a pretty big place. It’s not just the valley.

Re: India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi

#135

Post by intended » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 4:17 AM UTC

quantgenius wrote: post #51

bsan3 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, complete propaganda by the Indian govt. I have family there so I can confirm. The Indian media is completely sold out to the govt and will only present highly selected and curated pictures. Social media is where they can't control the narrative. The Indian govt unleash sate sanctioned mobs on these protestors, desperate resort to break up the protest. Now they had to ensure that the truth stays under wraps. Hen…

[flagged]

This is utterly incorrect. Indian press freedom itself dropped to 142, down from 136 in 2016.

It is a known fact that a majority of Indian channels are now completely beholden to the government.

Finally - the laws in question include a clause that prohibits access to courts for anyone with a dispute. Even people not affected by the laws are not allowed to bring a public interest suit to the courts.

The Indian courts are slow and bad. The Indian farm sector needs reform.

These are not those reforms, and this governments track record on execution of complex economics is terrifying.

Re: India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi

#136

Post by intended » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 4:21 AM UTC

davchana wrote: post #122

selimthegrim wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>because the Supreme Court of India like most of the silent majority in India understands that a citizen's rights only exist so long as the State itself exists. There is basic structure doctrine, no? Otherwise why not just have Emergency again > The majority of state citizens of Kashmir, certainly a majority of the residents and descendants of residents of Kashmir in the 1970s, today resides outside Kashmir. Most lef…

Sahi pakre hai, yes, true, for BJP, Only Hindus are state subjects, us others are just extra, cannon fodder.

No No, you are a Sikh, so you will have value when they need to show off that they are a pluralistic country to the west.

I mean the BJP government passed a law that said "we will allow citizenship for minorities who are of all religions, except Tibetans and Muslims" Then in the next breath talk about how this is not targeting a specific religion.

I really do hope people argue the case, because at least for external observers the hypocrisy is clear.

Re: India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi

#137

Post by dragonsh » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

quantgenius wrote: post #105

dragonsh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again you are parroting the same national agenda of the current Indian government of a Hindu state and Hindu way of living forcibly forced on every community in India. Recent example of local government passing laws to support groups and Organization who kill people who eat beef, another example of people of different religion marrying needs approval from state government (calling it law against love jihad). Not sure…

Beef consumption has been forbidden in most Indian states since independence and supported by all political parties. It’s a state issue. The Central government cannot legislate on the subject, it’s on the state list of subjects. You are criticizing the central government for a law a bunch of state governments passed decades ago!! There is a Hindu Marriage Act and other religious marriage acts. The difference is all b…

> criticising the central government

Conveniently leaving the truth that those state government which banned beef is same as central government (ruling central government party). People killed on suspicion of storing beef in home refrigerator is also perpetrated by central government party and its members (this is the reason no one got punished or prosecuted for mob killing). Central government has wide powers to initiate investigations and punish local officials as they have constantly done to muzzle political opponents in every state where they are not in power.

> marriage act

There is a reason it’s called Hindu marriage act and it’s very patriarchal with lots of inconsistencies. Not just this, there are many laws in India which needs repeal or reform like laws on sedition’s which are conveniently used by current government to put people in jail without trial trampling basic human rights. For higher courts it’s important to judge what a comedian can say or not say and habeas corpus cases are just kept pending. A minister of central government is outraged and any court takes up the case with utmost urgency, and person languish in jails for years waiting for their habeas corpus plea pending hearing.

> Muslim reforms

Let that community decide what reforms they want, don’t impose your will on them.

May be follow a bit of Buddhism to do self introspection and all will be evident.

Re: India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi

#138

Post by quantgenius » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 4:23 AM UTC

davchana wrote: post #125

quantgenius wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BJP has won and lost elections that were run using EVMs. They literally won a national election and lost state elections in the same EVM run elections. Are you going to tell me about Biden supporters somehow having stolen the presidential election while losing house seats by ballot stuffing now? I am half Sikh and many members of my family served in the Indian military, including in Sikh regiments. I would FAR pr…

No worries, I understand. Many sikhs here support Trump. Mostly who are here since ages, & are businessman, does not pay minimum wage, employ & exploit asylum seekers. And I am also sikh, although does not wear any sikh symbols like Hair Turban. No where I said we need congress government. Modi dictator need to go away. India was progressing way way more in Manmohans rule (yes, there were million bad issues were too,…

Just to be clear I’m not a Trump supporter as you seem to imply. Gave money to and voted for Biden, both in the primary and the general.

Re: India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi

#139

Post by dragonsh » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 4:25 AM UTC

quantgenius wrote: post #111

wolfretcrap wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marrying multiple women is medieval practise in your opinion but banning consumption of Beef is not? Why?

Consumption of dogs is banned in the US. Dogs are a delicacy in a number of places. Quite different from discriminating by gender and treating one gender in a marriage as chattel I would think.

It is banned but did not permit anyone to kill other people without impunity on suspicion of having dog meat in refrigerator. So may be please get facts right before arguing.

Re: India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers in Delhi

#140

Post by davchana » Sun, Jan 31, 2021, 4:25 AM UTC

quantgenius wrote: post #134

selimthegrim wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>because the Supreme Court of India like most of the silent majority in India understands that a citizen's rights only exist so long as the State itself exists. There is basic structure doctrine, no? Otherwise why not just have Emergency again > The majority of state citizens of Kashmir, certainly a majority of the residents and descendants of residents of Kashmir in the 1970s, today resides outside Kashmir. Most lef…

No, all Kashmiris are state subjects. However virtually all pandits, about 40% of the population in 1970 and about 35% of other Kashmiris have left the state and that is a majority. Kashmir, the state is a pretty big place. It’s not just the valley.

Hmm. Only in BJP Math Classes 40% out of 100% is a Majority, & 60% rest are minority. Because 40% is Hindu, & 60% is non hindu. All citizens are equal, but every Hindu is more equal than non hindu.