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Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)
131–140 of 237 posts
Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
"That's why education is the most important pillar of democracy. Education is everything. " The kind of people who get into positions of power - well, my impression is that they think they know better. Even if they are aware of the fact that in 1930 someone fucked up, they will not entertain the fact that they themselves might do the same. Also, some events are really complex. You can educate people about the 1929 or…
The most educated people I know seem the most partisan right now and most likely to parrot main stream media talking points. It’s making me question my assumptions about education. On the other hand Im just one data point.
Have you considered that maybe the "mainstream media" is right?
I know it seems almost impossible–what with them basically espousing the same values that used to be generally accepted as "good" a decade or so ago: overcoming division, not burning coal just to piss off the libs, not killing vice presidents on Wednesdays and Fridays, international cooperation, arms control, caps lock control, etc...
And that YouTube guy you adore does make a lot of sense when he shouts at the camera. Not just on dietary supplements but also how the loss of traditional gender roles has specifically disadvantaged high-IQ males with STEM affinity.
That pronoun thing might even get someone killed, in a very convoluted way.
But even then it just doesn't seem to have the potential to end the republic quite as easily as, say, musing about having the military re-run the election in states you lost, in such an obvious way every living former SecDef signs a letter asking the military to disregard such orders.
Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)
#133Turchin's two main ideas are intriguing. a) 50 years is enough for "institutional memory" to go out of the window. This may change with longevity breakthroughs, but 50 years is currently enough for a complete generation exchange, so the new leaders have no memory of the previous upheaval and will make the same mistakes again. Or at least the same kind of mistakes, details are always different. b) elite overproduction…
B) is a myth. Statistics show consistently and over and over that those who do the best in the US are the college-educated. Media is produced by the college-educated so it is their class' problems gets the most attention but it is clearly not their problems that are the worst. It's all those who were too dumb or too socially disadvantaged to get a higher education what will be SOL in the future. Those who voted for Trump and will vote either for him or his successor in 2024.
Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ahhh yes. Look at all the university students and professors who just stormed the capitol building in full tactical gear. Really everything bad is all the left's fault. Somehow.
This is such a ridiculously uncharitable interpretation of what the person you're replying to said. It makes me feel like I'm on twitter
that’s because you’ve fallen for their dogwhistle. nothing like what they described actually occurred, and blaming college students is coded language to allude to the manufactured and not-so-secretly anti-semitic boogie man of “cultural marxism”.
Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
True, if you are on the right (political spectrum) you do not want to encourage higher education, it shifts people to the left, as analytical thinking starts undoing idealism. US is a good example of this, with most universities having more left communities around them. Perhaps it is an intentional long play by the Right in Australia to pursue this kind of minimisation of education
"education, it shifts people to the left, as analytical thinking starts undoing idealism." True; college students are noted for their lack of idealism. Conversely right leaning occupations such as veterans, oil rig workers and farmers always have their head in the clouds with high minded idealistic notions that don't work in the real world.
A lot of them were very supportive of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just because someone is more blue collar absolutely doesn't mean that they don't subscribe to high minded idealistic notions.
Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is what I would expect a technocratic forum like HN to suggest. America's most poverty stricken regions have had public education for nearly a century with almost no meaningful improvement in prospects. Tell me how rural poverty in West Viriginia is reduced by giving people humanities degrees. Better educated voters? Who cares, the poor have no representation of merit anyway; their choices are to vote for one pa…
Public education in the US is awful and lags nearly the entire developed world. Humanities degrees are not terribly useful, but boiling all education down to humanities degrees is a blatant strawman that signals a lot about your willingness to have a nuanced discussion. I think it's fairly self evident that investment in the future is what improves the future and education is probably the most important and significa…
Good education system does not neatly translate to, say, economic success.
Italy has top-class university system, much older than Columbus, and yet the country seems to be stuck in stagnation for last 20 years and the talented fresh graduates of those top schools move abroad.
Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)
#137Turchin's two main ideas are intriguing. a) 50 years is enough for "institutional memory" to go out of the window. This may change with longevity breakthroughs, but 50 years is currently enough for a complete generation exchange, so the new leaders have no memory of the previous upheaval and will make the same mistakes again. Or at least the same kind of mistakes, details are always different. b) elite overproduction…
Within the professions that make up "tech" 10 years is enough time for institutional memory to go out the window.
Well except certain groups within Apple, TSMC, the big japanese corps, IBM mainframes, and lesser known places.
Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is what I would expect a technocratic forum like HN to suggest. America's most poverty stricken regions have had public education for nearly a century with almost no meaningful improvement in prospects. Tell me how rural poverty in West Viriginia is reduced by giving people humanities degrees. Better educated voters? Who cares, the poor have no representation of merit anyway; their choices are to vote for one pa…
Public education in the US is awful and lags nearly the entire developed world. Humanities degrees are not terribly useful, but boiling all education down to humanities degrees is a blatant strawman that signals a lot about your willingness to have a nuanced discussion. I think it's fairly self evident that investment in the future is what improves the future and education is probably the most important and significa…
I'm not entirely clear on how many nations are able to be compared with the US within the developed world.
Given its size, configuration, and geopolitical contexts, the US has few comparable nations against which we can test. I guess we can say Russia is closest, followed by Canada & Mexico, then the entire EU and the CCP. India maybe?
> boiling all education down to humanities degrees is a blatant strawman
No, it isn't. The other nations I just listed by comparison churn out very few humanities degrees. What people choose to do with their privilege of going to college is a relevant data point, which feeds back into the quality of the education system overall.
> signals a lot about your willingness to have a nuanced discussion.
Let's not go around insinuating such things when you yourself started this conversation off failing to address the nuances of comparing the US against other "developed world" countries.
Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Honestly, after seeing both how the GOP and Democrats treated Trump, Sanders, and Gabbard, I find myself supportive of all three of them despite them having a very different views. I simply like that they're not either party. This seems absurd. If your political reasoning puts you in a situation where Trump and Sanders are both options for you then your system is broken - they are antithetical to each other in styl…
I don't think this is too difficult to understand. It's anti-establishment versus establishment, populist versus elite, that sort of axis.
I still don't get it. It just seems silly to favor a candidate based on who rejects them. If policies on opposite sides of the political spectrum are interchangeable then why care at all who gets elected?
At least voting for a 3rd party one can be said to be contributing to a cause closest to one's ideal, but being favorable to anyone who the mainstream doesn't approve of just seems like flawed logic.
Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gabbard is very lucky she is not in trouble for not registering as an agent of a foreign government after all her connections with VHP
Vishva Hindu Parishad? Has any American even heard of that? Why bother inventing something so arcane?
There was quite a bit of press about her links with Modi and the Modi-supporting diaspora