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Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)

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Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)

#111

Post by onethought »

WatchDog wrote: post #49
onethought wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an umbrellas make it rain reverse causation. If you look outside the US the education level does correlate with the political spectrum. The higher educated the population the entire spectrum shifts left. See Northern Europe, Japan, Australia, Singapore, China, even political ideology (democracy vs socialism) doesn’t change this correlation

> This is an umbrellas make it rain reverse causation. I don't see how. > If you look outside the US the education level does correlate with the political spectrum. I didn't mention anything about the US, it's a global phenomenon. Personality is a largely biological construct, and it's also highly correlated with political leaning. Looking at the big 5 model, left leaning people tend to be high in neuroticism(emotion…

I’m saying even the right shifts left. It’s not about “left leaning people” it’s the entire spectrum moves. There are still of course right and left leaning people on that spectrum

Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)

#112

Post by vladTheInhaler »

Izkata wrote: post #86
paganel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>at the 25+ crowd with fresh degrees, tons of debt and not-precisely-excellent earning opportunities There are numerous studies and theories saying that late 19th-early 20th century revolutions wouldn't have happened if they hadn't been coordinated by educated people who hadn't found a stable job (mostly as government employees, not that many private white-collar jobs back then). The Russian revolution definitely wou…

Kinda fits the current US situation too: The political violence isn't as new as a lot of people seem to believe - it started years ago, on college/university campuses. While that early violence was done by the students, several times people got videos of their professors in the crowd helping to coordinate. Once that became normalized it spilled off campus and grew into what we're seeing now.

Ahhh yes. Look at all the university students and professors who just stormed the capitol building in full tactical gear. Really everything bad is all the left's fault. Somehow.

Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)

#113

Post by jessaustin »

selimthegrim wrote: post #102
tathougies wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are increasingly beyond the reach of normal citizens. If your views do not align 100% with either party, you are increasingly marginalized. See the treatment of Donald Trump (a republican outsider, and not a traditional conservative by any means, but not a democrat in principle either) by the Republican party. For the past four years, republicans have refused to pass bills due to not matching ideological purity…

Gabbard is very lucky she is not in trouble for not registering as an agent of a foreign government after all her connections with VHP

Vishva Hindu Parishad? Has any American even heard of that? Why bother inventing something so arcane?

Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)

#114

Post by onethought »

tested23 wrote: post #65
onethought wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an umbrellas make it rain reverse causation. If you look outside the US the education level does correlate with the political spectrum. The higher educated the population the entire spectrum shifts left. See Northern Europe, Japan, Australia, Singapore, China, even political ideology (democracy vs socialism) doesn’t change this correlation

I guess your education did not teach you that correlation does not imply causation. The simpler explanation for why people that are educated lean left is that the people teaching them lean left. Why do teachers lean left? Because they are often broke and underpaid. The fact that there is such uniformity of thought in higher education just goes to show the power of indoctrination. I feel bad harping on common talking…

I’m talking the whole spectrum, you are caught up on American domestic ideas of left v right.

As my example stated, the far right in Australia would be considered left in the US... the whole spectrum has moved... not talking about individuals... they still exist across that spectrum

Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)

#115

Post by SantalBlush »

squidlogic wrote: post #108
SantalBlush wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discourse is narrower than you'd like; that doesn't mean it's "gone". When someone makes extraordinary claims like "Discourse is gone," that is a red flag that they are not viewing the situation objectively.

So perhaps a better claim would be that the new discourse is unduly confined and the older modes of discourse are gone.

That's a better starting point for a productive discussion, but still hyperbolic.

Moreover, do you notice that my comment is being grayed out as people who disagree are downvoting it? A lot of people who claim to value discussion really don't; not on Hacker News, and not elsewhere.

Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)

#116

Post by jessaustin »

squidlogic wrote: post #108
SantalBlush wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discourse is narrower than you'd like; that doesn't mean it's "gone". When someone makes extraordinary claims like "Discourse is gone," that is a red flag that they are not viewing the situation objectively.

So perhaps a better claim would be that the new discourse is unduly confined and the older modes of discourse are gone.

The discourse has always been unduly confined. We never discussed whether it was a good thing to slaughter all the Native Americans, and we're not discussing whether all our stupid wars nowadays are good, either. War is off-topic in the USA "discourse". I'm sure other important things about which I'm less concerned are also "unduly" left out.

Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)

#117

Post by onethought »

johngalt wrote: post #56
onethought wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, if you are on the right (political spectrum) you do not want to encourage higher education, it shifts people to the left, as analytical thinking starts undoing idealism. US is a good example of this, with most universities having more left communities around them. Perhaps it is an intentional long play by the Right in Australia to pursue this kind of minimisation of education

"education, it shifts people to the left, as analytical thinking starts undoing idealism." True; college students are noted for their lack of idealism. Conversely right leaning occupations such as veterans, oil rig workers and farmers always have their head in the clouds with high minded idealistic notions that don't work in the real world.

So why are the countries I listed Right way more progressive than the US? Is it’s function of culture something unique about US culture?

Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)

#118

Post by vladTheInhaler »

flybrand wrote: post #25
watwut wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young people are less violent then they used to be. It is not just about their share in population, they behave less violently then young people 50 years ago.

People who are less violent can easily become violent because they don’t understand the cost and destruction of force escalation.

Really the violent people are the actual pacifists, and the peaceful ones are secretly capable of great violence? [CITATION NEEDED]

Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)

#119

Post by root_axis »

tathougies wrote: post #93
kaitai wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best educated voter -- any voter in fact -- can also run for office and transform the party. I dislike the rhetoric you're using that implies the parties are outside and beyond the reach of "normal" citizens. Of course they are institutions with substantial inertia and aims of their own. But as the elections of people as diverse as Cori Bush and Madison Cawthorne and Marjorie Taylor Greene show, it is certainly s…

they are increasingly beyond the reach of normal citizens. If your views do not align 100% with either party, you are increasingly marginalized. See the treatment of Donald Trump (a republican outsider, and not a traditional conservative by any means, but not a democrat in principle either) by the Republican party. For the past four years, republicans have refused to pass bills due to not matching ideological purity…

> Honestly, after seeing both how the GOP and Democrats treated Trump, Sanders, and Gabbard, I find myself supportive of all three of them despite them having a very different views. I simply like that they're not either party.

This seems absurd. If your political reasoning puts you in a situation where Trump and Sanders are both options for you then your system is broken - they are antithetical to each other in style, philosophy, character and most importantly policy. Based on your logic, if both parties rejected Stalin then you'd be in favor of him.

Re: Will the US experience a violent upheaval in 2020? (2012)

#120

Post by jessaustin »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #69
neartheplain wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps unfortunately, 50 years might not be long enough for generational turnover in US government. Joe Biden and Mitch McConnell are both 78 years old. Nancy Pelosi is 80. Senators Diane Feinstein and Chuck Grassley are 87.

It's 48 years since Joe Biden became a senator, and he was one of the youngest senators ever. None of those people held a national-level office 50 years ago. There has been a complete turnover in leadership in the past 50 years.

Whew, thank goodness! I'd hate to see centenarians in Congress!
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