Paris hails victory over short-stay rents • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#131

Post by kofejnik » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

q3k wrote: post #78

vertis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand…

> I would love to know why people are downvoting? I didn't downvote, but your post seems to come from a place of privilege. It puts your comfortable, posh 'digital nomad' touristy lifestyle as something that is worth sacrificing others' lives for. Oh no, you might have to stay in a hotel or long-stay vacation home instead of a short-term rental. Imagine the discomfort. To me, if you visit some place, you do as the lo…

don't speak for all locals, as some locals clearly wish to make money by airbnb-ing

(also, the concept of privilege is overblown imo)

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#132

Post by ck425 » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

everlost wrote: post #120

gherkinnn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But one of the things the we value as digital nomads is living as the locals live (or as close as possible). Nah, mate. Nomads living like locals is an oxymoron. It doesn’t come close. I wish Airbnb-ers would stop touting this. You haven’t seen restaurants come and go. You don’t know the intricacies of local culture and etiquette. If you do speak the language, you don’t speak the lingo. You have never fought with t…

What is the alternative then? Live like tourists in hotels and never understand what local people care about?

If you want to be a local you have to actually become a local. That means moving there and actually living there for a significant period of time.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#133

Post by kofejnik » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

aloukissas wrote: post #93

swarnie_ wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to Athens last summer and spent 4 nights in the city staying in an AirBnB style rent. I thought it would be better doing this than giving my money to a generic international hotel chain but you disagree apparently. I find your solution unworkable personally. When I travel I like to have somewhere private I can come back to after a long day, the coach surfing model doesn't appeal to couples.

Unfortunately, most of the owners of Airbnb and other short-term rentals in Greece are non-Greek citizens who got a "golden passport" in the recent years, buying off a huge chunk of the apartment inventory in Athens and elsewhere. Re: couch-surfing -- probably a bad metaphor on my end. I meant the "rent a room in a house" model that Airbnb offers.

> Unfortunately, most of the owners of Airbnb and other short-term rentals in Greece are non-Greek citizens who got a "golden passport" in the recent years, buying off a huge chunk of the apartment inventory in Athens and elsewhere.

why is this unfortunate? I thought investment is good for economy?

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#134

Post by RestlessMind » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:21 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #128

joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

> seemed pretty reasonable; they wanted a quiet neighborhood where their kids could play This is certainly a valuable thing, I can see why people want it and I support it being available to them. But why are these the only people who seem reasonable? This land use is just as disruptive to the enjoyment of others as "a vibrant city with street life and parties." Why is this preference so privileged over all the others…

Like most things in life, this may boil down to who came first and who holds most of the power? If someone lands in a suburbia and wants to convert it into a dense metropolis because he wants to enjoy city life, existing residents have enough power (and moral high ground) to ask him to fuck off to Manhattan. By the same rule, if someone were to go to Manhattan and wanted a peaceful life with lots of open space, he should move out to suburbs instead of trying to convert Manhattan to his tastes.

Only way a status quo can change is if the newcomers amass enough power to change it.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#135

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:22 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #128

joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

> seemed pretty reasonable; they wanted a quiet neighborhood where their kids could play This is certainly a valuable thing, I can see why people want it and I support it being available to them. But why are these the only people who seem reasonable? This land use is just as disruptive to the enjoyment of others as "a vibrant city with street life and parties." Why is this preference so privileged over all the others…

[deleted]

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#136

Post by leetcrew » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

munchbunny wrote: post #126

maximente wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

great point. virtually all AirBnb users espousing "want to live life like the locals" are basically using coded language for "don't want to stay with the 'other' tourists" - as if they are not tourists themselves. it may also mean that they don't want to pay the hotel prices they see, so in order to sustain their lifestyle financially, they'll find a cheaper place via Airbnb.

I think that's being uncharitable to travelers. That might be true for some tourists, but I believe there are plenty of travelers who have honest anthropological curiosity about the cultures of the places where they're visiting. And that's a good thing. The problem is that policy around short term rentals is agnostic to the renter's intentions. There's no real way I can think of to enforce "conscientious renters only…

> I think that's being uncharitable to travelers. That might be true for some tourists, but I believe there are plenty of travelers who have honest anthropological curiosity about the cultures of the places where they're visiting. And that's a good thing.

agreed. I don't think airbnb users honestly think they are living "like a local" when they stay somewhere for a few weeks. they just want to stay in a residential area as opposed to a hotel, and see the markets/restaurants that locals would walk to. or they might just want to pay less.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#137

Post by ck425 » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

kyleblarson wrote: post #73

joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

You are free to move elsewhere.

So local residents should just leave anywhere they becomes popular with tourists?

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#138

Post by RestlessMind » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

> Short-stay specialist Airbnb said it welcomed a decision that "will go to help in clarifying the rules".

Why does that leave me with a feeling that Airbnb now considers itself to be entrenched enough that they are welcoming government regulations which will prevent upstarts from competing with it?

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#139

Post by notyourwork » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #112

yardie wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own in a building that used to be rampant with AirBnb rentals. Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months. I used to not mind Airbnb and was a long time proponent. But the edge cases aren't even edge cases anymore. Just within the last few days one of the more popular buildings in our neighborhood had a shooting. The…

> Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months. is this really a good thing? once you start banning rentals in the 1-6 month range, you are no longer just targeting tourists. you're also hurting folks without stable jobs who can't commit to a typical lease length.

How many are in this category though? It seems like a minority case and any decent job which may require relocation or unpredictable permanence offers moving assistance that handles breaking leases.

Re: Paris hails victory over short-stay rents

#140

Post by joshgev » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #128

joshgev wrote: post #20

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving…

> seemed pretty reasonable; they wanted a quiet neighborhood where their kids could play This is certainly a valuable thing, I can see why people want it and I support it being available to them. But why are these the only people who seem reasonable? This land use is just as disruptive to the enjoyment of others as "a vibrant city with street life and parties." Why is this preference so privileged over all the others…

This was an otherwise quiet residential neighborhood, not particularly close to any attractions. No one is saying that these people who bothered everyone around them were doing something fundamentally wrong. Partying and traveling are great and I do these things as well. However, it is a pretty difficult position to take, in my opinion, that it is okay for short-term guests to come in for a few days to a few weeks, disregard all norms held by those around them and who actually care about the community, and bother everyone while doing so. You do you, but please don't do it in my neighborhood if it is going to disrupt everyone's lives.