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Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

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Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#131
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Japanese culture, but where I'm from accepting the gift would be the polite thing to do (vs rejecting it).

Yeah, spending postage and effort to return a $20 gift card (or whatever it was) is so rude. I'm not sure where in the world that wouldn't come off as rude.

> From the address I saw that the owner lived in my neighborhood

Probably went on his foot

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#132
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article hits on this, suggesting that they are viewed as communal property since they're so abundant, cheap and frequently forgotten. Umbrellas are also an on demand item, so can see how this could evolve as a sort of community solution to the rain problem.

What is the rain problem? I live in the Pacific Northwest where it rains for 9 months out of the year. Our solution is to not use umbrellas at all. Everyone has a waterproof rain jacket.

In Seattle where it rains frequently but lightly, you really don't need an umbrella. But in places where it rains hard, umbrellas become a lot more desirable. A waterproof rain jacket won't help much in a torrential downpour. Maybe with a waterproof wide-brimmed hat as well, but chances are you'll still get drenched without an umbrella.

To put some numbers on it for perspective: Seattle is infamous for rain, but only averages 38 inches of rain per year. Miami, which is known for sunny beaches, averages 62 inches of rain per year. Tokyo gets 60 inches.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#133
post #112
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tall poppy syndrome, which can be oppressive in Northern Europe. Germany seems more relaxed than the Netherlands, and France seems to be worse. I've had friends telling me their Mercedes got frequently keyed for no reason, and the old Mercedes star on their classic even got ripped off.

That's very true in Germany. They do have a lot of freedoms, but they aren't very creative as a society. They fall back on strong adherence to rules and their culture re-enforces it. See this: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatlife/10599631/Why-the...

I don't think creativity and adherence to social rules lie along the same axis. Strictures can spur and channel creativity. And the absence of strong normative behaviors doesn't coincidence with greater creativity--there are plenty of countries, mostly undeveloped, where people generally do anything they want[1], but there's not much creativity going on.

As the rest of the world industrializes and the deficiencies and costs of our own social fabric are revealed in comparison, Americans seem to increasingly like to distinguish ourselves as "creative". But it's really just a euphemism intended to characterize our differences in a way that permits us to claim that we're "better" at something. Back when the U.S. was a leading industrial power house, when our democratic institutions were unique, there was no need to identify a specific quality like creativity to distinguish ourselves.

[1] I've been in at least one country where the very concept of a line seemed foreign to most of the people, who were within months or years (not even generations) removed from an nomadic lifestyle. This was qualitatively different than in some other countries with aggressive line jockeying and cheating.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#134
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? That's the kind of question that makes up the entire field of game theory. In every situation, the most natural strategy is to maximize personal gains. That's how natural selection works. But when people don't act like that, it means there must be some opposing force, normally one that benefits society. There is a lot to learn here, in fields as diverse as biology, economics, computing, and of course, games.

As Hobbes writes in The Leviathan, Western civilization views the world as a "war of all men against all other men." Basically, the world is made up of individuals, and everyone is on their own, and they must fight with others in a zero-sum game to attain safety and happiness. If you subscribe to this view, it becomes harder for people to see that it's actually in your interest to act in good faith. That is how I und…

I guess there's just this mentality of "the peace of all with all" instead of "the war of all against all". That's how it feels.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#135
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article hits on this, suggesting that they are viewed as communal property since they're so abundant, cheap and frequently forgotten. Umbrellas are also an on demand item, so can see how this could evolve as a sort of community solution to the rain problem.

What is the rain problem? I live in the Pacific Northwest where it rains for 9 months out of the year. Our solution is to not use umbrellas at all. Everyone has a waterproof rain jacket.

In Japan and many other parts of East Asia, it rains most during the hottest months of summer. You don't wear jackets when it's 30+ °C and humid outside.

But after living in the region for many years, I agree people also tend to be a bit irrationally afraid of the rain.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#136

My first day in Japan I fell asleep on the train. I woke up to a train employee telling me to leave the train. I grabbed my bag and left in a daze, only to realize too late that I left my duffle bag on the top shelf. I reported it and was assured that it would be found. 2 weeks later they still hadn't found my bag but kindly told me that it must have been a Korean. Um. Well, that was 20 years ago. I'm sure things are…

I loled at that `must have been a Korean` comment. History of Koreans in Japan has a complicated story. But basically ethnic Koreans are treated as a second class citizen in Japan. A Korean-American friend told me this story. He worked with a Britain/Ireland born coworker who was working in US at the time. Blond, European. He traveled fair bit to Japan. He knew this guy was Korean-American and in a conversation he as…

> This EU born coworker was confused what changed in that 5 year period.

Could be this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bae_Yong-joon

Or more seriously, a series of Korean dramas that somehow gained immense popularity in Japan. Bae, nicknamed Yon-sama, became so popular that Japanese prime minister (Junichiro Koizumi) joked that he wanted to be like Yon-sama.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#137

This smells like a lot of post-hoc rationalization. Collectivism? What about China, which did terribly on this kind of test. Shintoism? Only 3-4% of the population follows that. See https://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-people-are-honest-los... where the graphic in the middle of the page compares countries. It appears that Scandinavian countries fare best followed by Eastern European. I would be happy to hear what p…

Clearly, it's a lasting side effect of the Meiji Restoration, because it's one of the few things I remember about Japanese history.

While that was a joke, that does seem to be how people pick these explanations. Everything about Japan seems to be explainable by social homogeneity, WW2, or philosophy/religion, which is just the set of facts foreigners tend to know about Japan.

I can't explain my own culture, and I've actually studied its history. I'm not even confident I can identify the differences it has with other cultures. We're often more similar than we think.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#138
post #5

I experienced this while visiting Japan. While doing a transfer on the Shinkansen in Hiroshima, I left my camera bag at a noodle kiosk on the platform (around $3k worth of equipment). Didn't realize it until 2 hours after getting on the next train. When we arrived at our destination, I told my friend we were meeting (a Japanese native) what happened, and she reassured me that it would be right where I left it (said s…

I once found a wallet on the sidewalk outside a mall in Japan. I tried to drop it at the mall's lost and found, but the security guard there took me with him to a police box. The policeman there took me to the local police station, and we spent the next hour filling out a report. They were all very friendly and appreciative that I turned it in, but it was really quite an ordeal. If I were to find something valuable a…

I think this might have more to do with you not being one of the locals.

A good 'hack' to this might be to pick a set of 2-3 local looking people and loudly point out the item in question so that someone else can deal with it.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration has been steadily increasing in Japan.[1] That homogeneity presupposes trust is a right-wing stereotype used to devalue immigrants in a society and justify harsh enforcement. You can find people of every ethnicity in Tokyo, including many half and full Brazilian people that you could mistake for latinos here in the US[2]. 1. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/03/11/national/japan-... 2. https://en.wik…

> That homogeneity presupposes trust is a right-wing stereotype used to devalue immigrants in a society and justify harsh enforcement. The fact it's a right wing idea doesn't mean it's wrong. A nation's laws is written by its people. The fact is different peoples have different cultures and follow different sets of rules. The ideal immigrant is the one who naturalizes and fully integrates into the existing society. W…

>What usually happens is they stick together in foreigner groups for mutual support.

Which is why proactive government outreach and support is so important. Why trust-building is important. People need to understand the VASTLY different role police play in Japan, and they need that information communicated in accessible ways. Harsh enforcement degrades that trust and creates insularity. Immigrants provide benefits to the host countries' economies, but rather than use some of that wealth to create and foster social programs, host country politicians instead use these communities as a scapegoat for the anger generated by austerity's impacts on the working poor.

Countries want the economic benefits of immigrants without the necessary investment in immigrant communities.

>They maintain their culture and continue living by the same rules they are used to.

Every person understands theft and the effects it has. This notion that the immigrant or their community is somehow inherently lesser or more tolerant or capable of anti-social behavior is textbook xenophobia.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#140
post #5

I experienced this while visiting Japan. While doing a transfer on the Shinkansen in Hiroshima, I left my camera bag at a noodle kiosk on the platform (around $3k worth of equipment). Didn't realize it until 2 hours after getting on the next train. When we arrived at our destination, I told my friend we were meeting (a Japanese native) what happened, and she reassured me that it would be right where I left it (said s…

On the other hand, the Japanese are inveterate umbrella thieves. So much so that you will find locking umbrella racks in many buildings. The pressure has to go somewhere.

That's interesting because when I visited I went to an onsen and my umbrella didn't fit the lock system. Then I thought, "What do I have to worry about? I'm in Japan. Nobody will steal it." 3 hours later and it was still there waiting for me.
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