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After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

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Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had me until "cancel culture" Exactly how many irreverent comedians who achieved significant success and are not really accountable to anyone, telling it like it is, have been cancelled by the cancel culture? Cosby, TJ Miller, Louis CK, Jeffrey Tambor, James Franco, ...? A good list of people who did morally reprehensible things of varying degrees, from illegal to merely opening their employers to civil liability…

Roseanne Barr. Had her ABC show cancelled over a tweet, yet ABC-owned ESPN hired Keith Olbermann. Multiple examples of someone posting vile stuff on a blog or twitter and being unscathed (Joy Reid is one quick example,) but Roseanne gets canceled because she happens to support Trump . Another example is Shane Gillis — cancelled because of something he said, not any specific action. Getting cancelled for sexually abus…

> but Roseanne gets canceled because she happens to support Trump.

That's not the comment she got canceled for. She was being horribly racist. Trump support is less the issue than it is extra gasoline between his racist comments and her horrible comment.

> If I made vile jokes about Trump and his kids, I’d get a Netflix special.

Where is your example here?

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#132
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China pollutes more than the US. The US outsources pollution to China by outsourcing manufacturing of things that US environmental laws make extra costly to manufacture in the US. Then out of the other side of its mouth the US criticizes China for being a polluter. Also, accounts of US pollution do not consider the pollution caused by US wars and occupations, which are the single most polluting thing ever done by m…

The pollution thing I understand, and the worst part about the US system is it allows the greedy psychopaths at the strings of large multinationals to go unchecked. How is posturing to take over the peaceful island of Taiwan a protective act? How is allowing NK to blackmail the world with nukes good? These countries you listed... many would be in perpetual civil war for a century or be in the grips of autocratic stro…

> You seem more like a US hater than a realist

Realism involves an honest discussion of national interest. In the US we have fairytale stories about American Exceptionalism, which serve the same purpose as religious canon.

Part of the US strategy is to frame foreign leaders and governments as horrible/dictator/strongman, etc. So then the post-intervention scenario can be favorably compared to what would have hypothetically happened if the US had not intervened.

But further analysis reveals that the US framing of foreign leaders and governments is never remotely based on reality and is always a propaganda tool to help the public consent to whatever atrocious acts the leaders seek to undertake.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#133
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comedy has always been a place you'd look if you want to see someone speak truth to power, for millennia too, and South Park has always done that. No, not always. They sometimes do that. Calling vegetarians pussies [0] is not speaking truth to power. It's punching down. South Park's approach is more the "try to piss off everyone" approach, which while funny, is a bad way to find your moral compass. 0 - https://www.yo…

“Punching down” itself is a concept they would, and should, make fun of. That term is just a way of framing speech that you disagree with in order to censor it for being anti-virtuous.

“Punching down” itself is a concept they would, and should, make fun of.

Well, it's been well established that they would make fun of anything. I'm not arguing that. You tell the writers what they should be doing though.

That term is just a way of framing speech that you disagree with in order to censor it for being anti-virtuous.

No it's not. You're making a lot of false assumptions about what I said based on zero evidence. If you don't understand what I'm saying, that's one thing, but don't put words in my mouth.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pollution thing I understand, and the worst part about the US system is it allows the greedy psychopaths at the strings of large multinationals to go unchecked. How is posturing to take over the peaceful island of Taiwan a protective act? How is allowing NK to blackmail the world with nukes good? These countries you listed... many would be in perpetual civil war for a century or be in the grips of autocratic stro…

> You seem more like a US hater than a realist Realism involves an honest discussion of national interest. In the US we have fairytale stories about American Exceptionalism, which serve the same purpose as religious canon. Part of the US strategy is to frame foreign leaders and governments as horrible/dictator/strongman, etc. So then the post-intervention scenario can be favorably compared to what would have hypothet…

Very few intelligent Americans believe in our absolute exceptionalism. You're saying that the gun-toting hicks are representative of the whole country? Generalization.

Also your strongman framing explanation is overly simplified. "Never" is an absolute. Do you think Saddam was a good guy? Do you think North Korea is a good place?

I'm not nearly in support of everything the US Gov has done. But you're saying since their record is not 100% perfect, then it is a bad actor. Tough threshold you have there. It's obvious you're just anti-US and probably a troll.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China right now is national socialism like Hitler could only dream of implementing. It is eerie how directly parallel developments are, and how little this is remarked.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hitler_and_socialism "An entirely Americentric argument, spurred on by certain batty ideologues and infamous websites, claims that Adolf Hitler was not the far-right, anti-communist nationalist that everyone else remembers him to be, but rather an egalitarian socialist.[note 1] Much like the Discovery Institute and their assault on the theory of evolution, this attempts to evoke the asso…

Only numbskulls really believe that National Socialism was in any way socialist. I should have capitalized the initial comment correctly, but I was on my phone.

The fact remains that China has effectively implemented and perfected National Socialism. Call it fascism if you prefer. But it is difficult to look at a state that has entwined single-party authoritarian rule around capitalist economic principles and not see the comparison.

That they are brazenly suppressing and exterminating ethnic and religious minorities is icing on the cake.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#136

Good, good....the more the merrier. Maybe finally the world will stop cuddling with China like they did in past 3 decades and start treating them for what they really are. A tight grip censorship dictatorship that has thrown dust in the world's eyes posing as softies while behind the scenes they amassed a lot of wealth riding West blindness.

At least they're not backwards with regards to climate change ...

Realistically climate change is a more pressing issue than censorship.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#137
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, and as upsetting as it is for Americans to hear this, chances are Europe would be at least as pluralistic and free as it is today had either of those happened.

In the counterfactual where the Soviets conquered Europe, I could easily see the USSR surviving to today... No liberal democracies on their borders to compare with, no need for a huge military on the western border, and increased resources would go a long way.

It’d still crumble under its own weight due to corruption and lack of mid-level society bonding factors like corporations, unions, gatherings, etc. China managed to navigate this mess somewhat successfully until it was technically possible to implement social engineering on a scale previously unheard of with their great firewall and social score. Compute power enables their selective repression system.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#138

Good, good....the more the merrier. Maybe finally the world will stop cuddling with China like they did in past 3 decades and start treating them for what they really are. A tight grip censorship dictatorship that has thrown dust in the world's eyes posing as softies while behind the scenes they amassed a lot of wealth riding West blindness.

At least they're not backwards with regards to climate change ... Realistically climate change is a more pressing issue than censorship.

I struggle to believe that this is a core concern, and not a response to other pressures. For example, being reliant on other countries for energy.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you use the word democratic to describe North Korea, despite that being the name of the country?

No, but by your standards 'Socialist' describes Nazi Germany approximately as well as it does China.

I think you are misunderstanding what I said.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem more like a US hater than a realist Realism involves an honest discussion of national interest. In the US we have fairytale stories about American Exceptionalism, which serve the same purpose as religious canon. Part of the US strategy is to frame foreign leaders and governments as horrible/dictator/strongman, etc. So then the post-intervention scenario can be favorably compared to what would have hypothet…

Very few intelligent Americans believe in our absolute exceptionalism. You're saying that the gun-toting hicks are representative of the whole country? Generalization. Also your strongman framing explanation is overly simplified. "Never" is an absolute. Do you think Saddam was a good guy? Do you think North Korea is a good place? I'm not nearly in support of everything the US Gov has done. But you're saying since the…

> probably a troll.

It's telling that anyone who seriously questions American Exceptionalism is viewed instinctively as a troll.

> Very few intelligent Americans believe in our absolute exceptionalism.

This assertion is not falsifiable, and just sounds like praising "moderation" while simultaneously supporting the status quo. Meaningless.

> Do you think Saddam was a good guy?

Life in Iraq under Saddam was substantially better for most Iraqis than life in Iraq during the American war and occupation. Note that the death toll for US Iraq adventures is approaching 1 Million, so it is harder to find dissenting voices than it would otherwise be.

> Do you think North Korea is a good place?

I don't think there is any reason why tiny NK needs to be fodder for such dramatic propaganda toward US citizens. At best, NK is relevant because of some broader conflict between the US and China, and is a pawn used by both sides.

> But you're saying since their record is not 100% perfect, then it is a bad actor.

No, I am simply saying that the US is most definitely a bad actor when measured by any reasonable standard. The idea that the US has (overall) a glowing "record" is simply a way of incorporating past successes (WW2) into the rhetoric for today's backward policies. The US may not have always been a bad actor, but it has been for the past 3 or 4 decades.

> Tough threshold you have there.

As a US citizen, my job is to be honest and direct about the failures of US foreign and domestic policies. I have a duty to do that. I certainly think we all have a duty to fix our own country before throwing stones at others.

> It's obvious you're just anti-US

You forgot to provide attribution for this quote. It's attributable (in paraphrase) to George W. Bush, who said "You're either with us or against us".

Here are the things that would allow the US to take some first steps toward stopping being a bad actor:

- Have an internal discussion about US national interest that does not involve personal attacks or accusations of insanity or ideological extremism directed toward foreign peoples/leaders.

- Allow for the possibility that the US might undertake wars of aggression or might attempt to simply steal resources that belong to other countries for its own selfish gains, and not for humanitarian reasons. All foreign policy is now explained in American Exceptionalist platitudes about freedom, women's rights, etc. Give me a break.

- The pentagon budget should be fully auditable

- All foreign operations/engagements that cost over $1M, involve over 100 troops or last longer than 30 days should require a congressional majority. All operations and spending should be re-approved via a new congressional vote every six months.

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