After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web • Hacker News Board

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#91

Post by ur-whale » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

0xdead wrote: post #74

I love how a single episode of a show can piss off the government of a country. Just recently Saudi Arabia banned an episode of "Patriot Act" and now this. Tyrants are really sensitive I guess.

> Tyrants are really sensitive I guess.

Here's a fun game to play: close your eyes and imagine yourself in their shoes, hanging on to power day after day by a thread, relying on fear and coercion to keep on going.

Now comes such an episode making fun of you in front of the people you scare for a living.

What do you do?

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#92

Post by resters » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

throw51319 wrote: post #49

resters wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. China is overall far less destructive to the world and to human rights than the US is. Keep in mind that Trump has started this anti-China drumbeat as a way of asserting the moral superiority of his administration.

China pollutes more than the US. Also anybody can see that they are gearing up for a conflict to obtain hegemony. They are the ones posturing for inevitable conflict... just so they can gain more power over the world. Look at countries that fell into the US sphere of influence... Europe, South Korea. Things aren't to bad in those places huh?

> China pollutes more than the US.

The US outsources pollution to China by outsourcing manufacturing of things that US environmental laws make extra costly to manufacture in the US. Then out of the other side of its mouth the US criticizes China for being a polluter.

Also, accounts of US pollution do not consider the pollution caused by US wars and occupations, which are the single most polluting thing ever done by mankind. China may edge out US private sector pollution, but it's hard to compete with years of oil field fires.

> they are gearing up for a conflict to obtain hegemony

China does not have natural borders (oceans) like the US, so it has more regional vulnerabilities. I don't think there is evidence that China's policies reveal anything more than the typical effort to protect against regional weaknesses.

> Look at countries that fell into the US sphere of influence.

Such as Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi, Colombia, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Mexico, The Philippines? For the most part, US influence is horribly destructive to the democratic process and civil society of any nation it touches.

With respect to European wars, the US eventually decided to stop selling IBM tech to Hitler and to step in and enter the war, but it was already too late to prevent the worst atrocities. Of course the US narrative is that the US saved Europe from self destruction.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#93

Post by mschuster91 » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #72

mschuster91 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hell, give them back the Security Council seat that they had until the 70s... I'd rather prefer reforming the UN SC to get rid of the "veto" concept. It's time that the US, China and Russia have to finally be held accountable for the shit they did all over the world.

Hum... Are you aware that the UN has no intrinsic power, but is just a forum that hosts diplomatic negotiations? What change do you expect getting rid of the veto would bring?

> Hum... Are you aware that the UN has no intrinsic power, but is just a forum that hosts diplomatic negotiations?

I was talking about the Security Council which can legalize military interventions either by individual countries or by UN-labeled forces (e.g. as in the Afghanistan War), and can conduct investigatikons into war crime and other international law violations.

> What change do you expect getting rid of the veto would bring?

Right now, the veto powers block consequences for their allies - the US/Israel don't want their numerous illegal acts (regime changes, Iraq/Afghanistan war crimes, their part in the Palestine issue) investigated, the Russians block investigations into the atrocities of Assad's Syrian regime and the Chinese block everything that targets North Korea plus whatever the Russians need support. The only thing that's somehow consistently investigated are crimes of African warlords, creating an additional nasty white supremacism layer on top.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#94

Post by jfengel » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

davvolun wrote: post #71

wpasc wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that I agree with your sentiment. Irreverent comedians who have achieved significant success and not really accountable to anyone are perfectly positioned to "tell it like it is" and may be the best individuals to do so. I'm glad our society embraces and can cultivate such individuals especially in this time of cancel culture.

You had me until "cancel culture" Exactly how many irreverent comedians who achieved significant success and are not really accountable to anyone, telling it like it is, have been cancelled by the cancel culture? Cosby, TJ Miller, Louis CK, Jeffrey Tambor, James Franco, ...? A good list of people who did morally reprehensible things of varying degrees, from illegal to merely opening their employers to civil liability…

The name "cancel culture" is a just a rhetorical tactic to punch down at anybody who dares to complain. The ones crying "cancel culture" are the same ones wailing when football players kneel to call attention to abuse, and pass rules to forbid it.

When you do it it's censorship, and when we do it it's patriotism. They needed a dog-whistle to avoid putting it that way, so they seized on "cancel culture".

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#95

Post by resters » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:12 PM UTC

DuskStar wrote: post #87

easymodex wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Look at countries that fell into the US sphere of influence... Europe, South Korea. Things aren't to bad in those places huh? Here in Europe we are very thankful, if it wasn't for America we would still be a third world country living in tents. Thanks for democracy, freedom, art, philosophy, medicine and so on. I only wish Europe had any of the smart minds that you have, maybe we could come up with them. Oh wait...

I'm pretty sure that without the US, the 20th century would have seen Europe united under either Nazi Germany or the USSR...

True, and as upsetting as it is for Americans to hear this, chances are Europe would be at least as pluralistic and free as it is today had either of those happened.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#96

Post by briandear » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

kentrado wrote: post #28

thrower123 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China right now is national socialism like Hitler could only dream of implementing. It is eerie how directly parallel developments are, and how little this is remarked.

It is more state capitalism. Socialism implies more democracy.

Socialism implies more democracy? Is Venenzuela more democratic?

The only real democracy is that which is based on a government that is biased towards the center. Far left and far right is never democratic. Democracy working correctly is filled with compromise.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#97

Post by fishtacos » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #88

davvolun wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had me until "cancel culture" Exactly how many irreverent comedians who achieved significant success and are not really accountable to anyone, telling it like it is, have been cancelled by the cancel culture? Cosby, TJ Miller, Louis CK, Jeffrey Tambor, James Franco, ...? A good list of people who did morally reprehensible things of varying degrees, from illegal to merely opening their employers to civil liability…

Roseanne Barr. Had her ABC show cancelled over a tweet, yet ABC-owned ESPN hired Keith Olbermann. Multiple examples of someone posting vile stuff on a blog or twitter and being unscathed (Joy Reid is one quick example,) but Roseanne gets canceled because she happens to support Trump . Another example is Shane Gillis — cancelled because of something he said, not any specific action. Getting cancelled for sexually abus…

Words don't exist in a vacuum. They have meanings that people interpret to varying degrees of importance. Dismissing what he did as just "something he said" as opposed to meaning or intent, is not cancellation - it's society's backlash toward intolerable racist speech.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#98

Post by chrisco255 » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

digitalneal wrote: post #86

mattmanser wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

South Park has been advocating an ideology, including many morals, from day one of the shows. It may be a mixed message, it may be contradictory, but a lot of SP comedy hinges on pointing out the absurdities in our societies. Comedy has always been a place you'd look if you want to see someone speak truth to power, for millennia too, and South Park has always done that.

Yup. What would Brian Boitano do?

I bet he'd kick an ass or two.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#99

Post by DuskStar » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

resters wrote: post #95

DuskStar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that without the US, the 20th century would have seen Europe united under either Nazi Germany or the USSR...

True, and as upsetting as it is for Americans to hear this, chances are Europe would be at least as pluralistic and free as it is today had either of those happened.

In the counterfactual where the Soviets conquered Europe, I could easily see the USSR surviving to today... No liberal democracies on their borders to compare with, no need for a huge military on the western border, and increased resources would go a long way.

Re: After 'South Park' Censorship Episode, China Deleted the Show from the Web

#100

Post by Data_Junkie » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #89

mattmanser wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

South Park has been advocating an ideology, including many morals, from day one of the shows. It may be a mixed message, it may be contradictory, but a lot of SP comedy hinges on pointing out the absurdities in our societies. Comedy has always been a place you'd look if you want to see someone speak truth to power, for millennia too, and South Park has always done that.

The message of South Park is to point at people with any conviction and say “ha! Look at these idiots with an ideology. The only correct way is to be edgy and make fun of everything” It’s basically about nihilism.

You completely misunderstand what they do. The art form is political satire, which is just another way of saying "Look at these idiots, we need to stop this".