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Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

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Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#131

Post by Slippery_John »

intarga wrote: post #88
fulvous wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Approximately 1 billion people people are dependent on fish as the principal source of animal protein" http://www.suds-en-ligne.ird.fr/ecosys/ang_ecosys/intro1.htm

Is there something in particular necessary about animal protein, that it gets a distinct category from just protein in general? It also stands to reason that if that many people really are dependent on fish, it will be devastating to them when overfishing and pollution destroy fish stocks. All the more reason to reduce fishing and build alternatives now.

Well yes, but actually no. Not all proteins are equal, they have different quantities of different kinds of amino acids. Humans need 9 distinct amino acids for a healthy diet, and animal proteins are by far the easiest source of "complete proteins" from a single source. It's absolutely possible to get plant-based complete proteins (e.g. soy or quinoa), but often that involves deliberately mixing different protein sources to get a complete balance.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#132

Post by MrGLaDOS »

rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

I don't know about the US situation, but the recent EU proposal is often ridiculed for being just a "plastic straw ban".

Actually the "single-use plastics directive proposal [1]", part of a greater plastic strategy [2], is not only about plastic straws:

a) The ban will apply to plastic cotton buds, cutlery, plates, straws, drink stirrers and balloon sticks. These items represent 86% of all single-use plastic items on European beaches, and about half of all plastic marine litter washed up on European beaches.

b) Member States will have to reduce the use of plastic food containers and drinks cups.

c) Producers will help cover the costs of waste management and clean-up. The industry will also be given incentives to develop less polluting alternatives for these products.

d) Member States will be obliged to collect 90% of single-use plastic drinks bottles by 2025.

e) Member States will be obliged to raise consumers' awareness about the negative impact of littering of single-use plastics and fishing gear as well as about the available re-use systems and waste management options for all these products.

f) Fishing gear is also addressed: "up to now, ports have been able to charge fishermen for bringing retrieved abandoned, lost or disposed of fishing gear ashore over and above their normal fee. The Commission’s proposal to revise the Port Reception Facilities Directive (COM(2018)33 final) removes this disincentive. However, ports' costs for expanding facilities and running them could find their way back into the port fee; thus increasing the overall cost for fishers. This is where the Extended Producer Responsibility comes in. Under this scheme, fishing net producers take on the responsibility (and the cost) for managing fishing gear plastic once it is landed. So, this will reduce port costs for fishers, particularly in small fishing ports, and it will accelerate the development of a dedicated waste stream for fishing gear waste. [3]"

You could argue that this regulation is not enough.

You could argue that the ban should not focus on the most occuring single-use plastics that wash up on European beaches but should focus on the most occurring (micro)plastic-types in the oceans.

I would say this is a perfectly fine complementory step in the right direction.

[1] https://ec.europa.eu/environment/circular-economy/pdf/single...

[2] https://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/plastic_waste.htm

[3] https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/new-proposal-will-tackle-mari...

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#133

Post by easytiger »

intarga wrote: post #88
fulvous wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Approximately 1 billion people people are dependent on fish as the principal source of animal protein" http://www.suds-en-ligne.ird.fr/ecosys/ang_ecosys/intro1.htm

Is there something in particular necessary about animal protein, that it gets a distinct category from just protein in general? It also stands to reason that if that many people really are dependent on fish, it will be devastating to them when overfishing and pollution destroy fish stocks. All the more reason to reduce fishing and build alternatives now.

> Is there something in particular necessary about animal protein, that it gets a distinct category from just protein in general

Pretty worrying that people don't know that the only real sources of essential acids critical to humans are from seafood, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA)

They aren't optional and the body sucks at synthesising them.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#134

Post by tda »

I sometimes see biodegradable packing peanuts that resemble tasteless Cheese puffs used as alternative. So much better, I wonder why the styrofoam puffs are even still allowed.

Another side note, look at this sign that I've seen aboard vessels: https://vesselplacards.com/product/garbage-overboard-marpol-...

It basically states "Don't throw garbage overboard, You could be breaking the law" as if it being illegal should be the only reason not to dump your waste in the environment.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#135

Post by johnsea »

areyousure wrote: post #89
johnsea wrote: post #86

I don't believe this. -- About two years ago there was a study which said that 88 to 95 percent of the total global load of plastics in the oceans [edit: wrong see below] would come from 10 rivers: - https://phys.org/news/2017-10-plastic-rivers-stem-plastics-o... - https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611 and link to table https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611/tables/1 Still, of course, fishermen shouldn't t…

From your own source: > Now scientists have found that 10 rivers around the world where plastic waste is mismanaged contribute to most of the oceans' total loads THAT COME FROM RIVERS. (emphasis mine)

Uh, that's embarassing. Completely missed this (since two years... :-( ). Thank you.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#136

Post by MiroF »

notacoward wrote: post #122
MiroF wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean might not even be relevant? Is there some hidden reason we should be focusing on deep sea plastics only?

It's not hidden. It's what the OP is about. It's right there in the title - ocean plastic waste, not coastal. Pollution on or near shore is absolutely an important issue, but there are thousands of important issues that are not germane to this conversation.

I'm pretty sure the plastic coastal waste we're talking about it still in the ocean, so I'm a bit confused by the distinction you're making.

Care to explain more?

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#137

Post by modernista »

ibeckermayer wrote: post #54
MichaelApproved wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here you are creating a straw man argument. Reducing straws won’t “save the planet” on its own. We will improve the planet by doing multiple things. Reducing plastic use (less packaging, fewer straws, reusable shopping bags) all play a role in a much bigger effort.

Except that’s not improving the planet even a bit — chances are, every one of those straws being used in an American city would end up in a well run landfill and have minimal impact on the environment. It’s yet another example of knuckle dragging elites using state force to virtue signal. Meanwhile the real sources of the problem get ignored.

Except that’s not improving the planet even a bit.

Arguably it raises awareness and the shard belief in at least the principle of individual responsibility. Against the overwhelming tide of the "Fuck it, I'll be dead before this shit starts to really come down on our heads anyway" which would otherwise be the reigning default.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#138

Post by the_gastropod »

kgermino wrote: post #78
athenot wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> chances are, every one of those straws being used in an American city would end up in a well run landfill My front yard disagrees. It's adjacent to a somewhat busy road, and straws are part of the debris I have to routinely clean up (along with various wrappers and cigarette butts).

> and straws are part of the debris I have to routinely clean up I assume this cleaning includes putting them in your trash and the city taking them to a landfill? It's obviously not the best path, but cities[0] (by necessity) generally do a good job cleaning up the trash that gets scattered around. Bigger issue is non-urbanized areas where there isn't the density/wealth to clean up litter. [0] The collection of peop…

Let's consider the biggest city in the U.S., NYC. Manhattan? An island of 1.8 million no more than 2 miles wide. Brooklyn and Queens are on a spit of land called "Long Island". Together they have 4.8 million residents. Staten Island is, you guessed it, an island. And the Bronx is necessarily very close to a lot of water.

People litter. Cigarette butts, straws, plastic bottles, etc. all very regularly and easily wind up in the ocean with an assist of a slight breeze.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#140

Post by [deleted] »

spodek wrote: post #128
rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

Looking at elements loses sight of the system. The boats are there as part of a system driven by growth in GDP and population, externalizing costs, and related goals. We can say it's not us tossing the bottle overboard, but buying things the boats transport supports the system. Among the most important leverage points for changing a system are its goals and values. Changing from growth to enjoying what we have and fr…

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