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Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

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Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#61

Post by rantwasp »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #32
rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

And here you are creating a straw man argument. Reducing straws won’t “save the planet” on its own. We will improve the planet by doing multiple things. Reducing plastic use (less packaging, fewer straws, reusable shopping bags) all play a role in a much bigger effort.

is it a straw man though? i'm not proposing anything, I was just providing some links and maybe hinting at the fact that if we want to reduce plastic in the oceans we should focus on the biggest sources of plastics.

if everyone stops using plastic straws tomorrow it will not matter and will not make an impact on how much plastic keeps accumulating.

here are a few more ideas for helping the planet: have fewer kids - this weird trick works, learn to love GMOs - this is the future, there is no way we can sustain the population growth we are experience with everyone eating organic, drive your car into the ground or until it's too expensive to repair it.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#63

Post by lonelappde »

Moru wrote: post #33
worldsayshi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we have to start somewhere and we have to have the mindset that we should keep going.

I'm more worried that we dig in on the easy problems, forgetting the big, hard problems. Like plastic straws instead of fishing nets...

Why worry without evidence?

Even if the only the thing the straw ban did was inspired a whataboutism movement to pretend to care about fishing nets, it would still be a net win in terms of motivating improvement.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#64

Post by kaibee »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #32
rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

And here you are creating a straw man argument. Reducing straws won’t “save the planet” on its own. We will improve the planet by doing multiple things. Reducing plastic use (less packaging, fewer straws, reusable shopping bags) all play a role in a much bigger effort.

The uncomfortable truth is that action costs political capital. Something highly public, like plastic straws, by its nature is far more expensive than the actual environmental benefit that is accrued.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#65

Post by noselasd »

scottLobster wrote: post #36
mc32 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many will have paper straws as substitutes, but I’m very skeptical they did a study regarding cradle-to-grave impact of the substitution. Maybe they are net positive (results wise), but I doubt they looked at numbers and said, yes, clearly paper straws are less impactful.

I imagine it's similar to the grocery bag situation. Reusable cotton canvas bags keep plastic out of the environment, but their production emits thousands of times more CO2 per bag than disposable plastic bags. If you buy groceries once a week, you basically have to use the cotton canvas bags the rest of your life to even have a chance at breaking even, everything's a trade-off.

Aren't there better materials to make the resuable bags out of than cotton ?

Also, you can reuse the plastic bags.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#66

Post by lonelappde »

TorbjornLunde wrote: post #19
mc32 wrote: post #3

Wonder if this will have an impact on plastic straw bans on land. It was always a feel-good hi-viz, low-impact measure given little evidence behind the measures.

One problem with banning plastic straws as well is that many disabled people are dependent on them to be able to drink. AFAIK the alternatives (other kinds of straws) don't work well.

That's why they aren't all banned.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#67

Post by athenot »

ibeckermayer wrote: post #54
MichaelApproved wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here you are creating a straw man argument. Reducing straws won’t “save the planet” on its own. We will improve the planet by doing multiple things. Reducing plastic use (less packaging, fewer straws, reusable shopping bags) all play a role in a much bigger effort.

Except that’s not improving the planet even a bit — chances are, every one of those straws being used in an American city would end up in a well run landfill and have minimal impact on the environment. It’s yet another example of knuckle dragging elites using state force to virtue signal. Meanwhile the real sources of the problem get ignored.

> chances are, every one of those straws being used in an American city would end up in a well run landfill

My front yard disagrees. It's adjacent to a somewhat busy road, and straws are part of the debris I have to routinely clean up (along with various wrappers and cigarette butts).

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#68

Post by [deleted] »

sp332 wrote: post #10
is_true wrote: post #7

Anyone that lives in a city next to a river/lake/sea knows that all the small pieces of trash on land end up in the water.

That's still a small amount of trash compared to what gets intentionally dumped in the ocean, plus abandoned commercial-scale fishing equipment.

[deleted]

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#69

Post by stavros »

viraptor wrote: post #60
detritus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smells like death to me.

Fresh fish has barely any smell. You won't smell fish in a reasonable quality sushi train place for example. It's only if you don't preserve it well for hours that it starts to stink.

Personally, I don't mind fish, they smell and taste like nothing to me. I hate crustaceans/etc because they look disgusting, basically cockroaches of the sea. I can't understand how people look at them and still eat them (obligatory XKCD here https://www.xkcd.com/1268/).

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#70

Post by graedus »

mc32 wrote: post #58
kenny_r wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Greta visited the US[...] Yes, to address the United Nations.

...don’t forget the opportunistic appearance before Congress.

I was struggling with your use of "opportunistic". That word typically implies unethical behavior. Is that what you meant?
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