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Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

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Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#71

Post by viraptor »

marcosdumay wrote: post #57
MichaelApproved wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here you are creating a straw man argument. Reducing straws won’t “save the planet” on its own. We will improve the planet by doing multiple things. Reducing plastic use (less packaging, fewer straws, reusable shopping bags) all play a role in a much bigger effort.

I don't see people talking about reducing packaging. It was all about prohibiting shopping bags, and after that failed they got that turtle video and changed into prohibiting straws. What is doomed to fail again. You won't save the planet by focusing at the least effective, most demanding action one can do.

When I google "plastic packaging" there's a single link on the first two pages which doesn't talk about reducing packaging, sustainable alternatives, impact of packaging, or petitions to change something. If that doesn't count as people talking about it, I'm not sure what does.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#72

Post by MisterTea »

mc32 wrote: post #3

Wonder if this will have an impact on plastic straw bans on land. It was always a feel-good hi-viz, low-impact measure given little evidence behind the measures.

I get the sentiment behind objecting to straw bans and the like. But I think we're at a point where reducing plastic waste is becoming critical. It's everywhere. Short lived single use plastics like straws, cutlery, packing and shipping materials have to go the way of their dinosaur derived chemical components.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#73

Post by rantwasp »

lonelappde wrote: post #44
rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

So your proposal is what, New York City should somehow ban ocean fishing, instead of controlling plastic waste in it's jurisdiction?

i think banning ocean fishing would be a disaster actually. what we need is responsible fishing with proper management of the fishing nets (i.e. huge penalties for mismanaging/dumping/abandoning the fishing nets)

also the elephant in the room is that an individual in the US has little to no control over huge sources of pollution apart from feel good activism (look at this! i'm using a paper straw! I saved 2 turtles this morning y'all! what? can i drink though the paper straw? naaaw dog - it's mushy after 5 seconds but the turtles)

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#74

Post by mc32 »

graedus wrote: post #70
mc32 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...don’t forget the opportunistic appearance before Congress.

I was struggling with your use of "opportunistic". That word typically implies unethical behavior. Is that what you meant?

Had the opportunity to and acted on it. Parent mentioned UN, but she also visited other places in the US like the Congress.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#75

Post by viraptor »

sp332 wrote: post #18
mc32 wrote: post #3

Wonder if this will have an impact on plastic straw bans on land. It was always a feel-good hi-viz, low-impact measure given little evidence behind the measures.

We already had this data before the straw bans. They're not based on evidence, they're based on one photo of a turtle with a straw in its nose. Straws are a pretty common type of litter on beaches, and I could understand bans were that kind of litter is a problem. But if you put a straw in a landfill it's not going to end up in a turtle's nose.

> But if you put a straw in a landfill it's not going to end up in a turtle's nose.

That depends on what happens with your trash. If it stays inland in a landfill, then no. If it's sold for sorting and transported long distance on a barge, then that's possible.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#76

Post by rantwasp »

athenot wrote: post #67
ibeckermayer wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that’s not improving the planet even a bit — chances are, every one of those straws being used in an American city would end up in a well run landfill and have minimal impact on the environment. It’s yet another example of knuckle dragging elites using state force to virtue signal. Meanwhile the real sources of the problem get ignored.

> chances are, every one of those straws being used in an American city would end up in a well run landfill My front yard disagrees. It's adjacent to a somewhat busy road, and straws are part of the debris I have to routinely clean up (along with various wrappers and cigarette butts).

that's anecdotal evidence. how may of the straws used in your city end up in a front yard?

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#77

Post by tomp »

rantwasp wrote: post #26

This is known. The number I have heard floated around is 45%. So, commercial fishing nets are a big problem when it comes to plastic in the oceans. And here we are "saving the planet", by reducing the plastic straw consumption: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/07/18/anti-straw-mo... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-07/plasti... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...…

I sometimes wonder if this "plastic straw" wasn't another of 4Chan's trolling attempts... Like, sure, reduce plastic straw usage, but most bars just replaced them with paper straws. That is obviously a stupidly wrong solution, the vast majority of the population can easily manage without straws entirely, so really it just shows that people don't actually care about the environment, it's all just virtue signalling...

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#78

Post by kgermino »

athenot wrote: post #67
ibeckermayer wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that’s not improving the planet even a bit — chances are, every one of those straws being used in an American city would end up in a well run landfill and have minimal impact on the environment. It’s yet another example of knuckle dragging elites using state force to virtue signal. Meanwhile the real sources of the problem get ignored.

> chances are, every one of those straws being used in an American city would end up in a well run landfill My front yard disagrees. It's adjacent to a somewhat busy road, and straws are part of the debris I have to routinely clean up (along with various wrappers and cigarette butts).

> and straws are part of the debris I have to routinely clean up

I assume this cleaning includes putting them in your trash and the city taking them to a landfill?

It's obviously not the best path, but cities[0] (by necessity) generally do a good job cleaning up the trash that gets scattered around.

Bigger issue is non-urbanized areas where there isn't the density/wealth to clean up litter.

[0] The collection of people and institutions, not just the government.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#79

Post by spinach »

jajag wrote: post #47
weiming wrote: post #30

Extensive air pollution from China or India that surpasses the West also doesn't seem to get much attention, e.g. [1] [2] Greta visited the US and gave some compelling speeches. Will she visit China and India and do the same? [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/01/china-emits-... [2] https://qz.com/india/1581665/indias-carbon-emissions-growing...

A lot of that air pollution is emitted producing products for the US & European markets.

Exactly. It's pollution that we directly benefit from, it's not fair to think our countries are better at the protecting the environment when everything we buy is made there instead of having the dirty factories/industries in our own countries.

Re: Ocean plastic waste probably comes from ships, report says

#80

Post by varjag »

marcosdumay wrote: post #57
MichaelApproved wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here you are creating a straw man argument. Reducing straws won’t “save the planet” on its own. We will improve the planet by doing multiple things. Reducing plastic use (less packaging, fewer straws, reusable shopping bags) all play a role in a much bigger effort.

I don't see people talking about reducing packaging. It was all about prohibiting shopping bags, and after that failed they got that turtle video and changed into prohibiting straws. What is doomed to fail again. You won't save the planet by focusing at the least effective, most demanding action one can do.

There's definitely a huge shift to reducing plastic packaging. Even large TVs now come packaged without polystyrene padding.
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