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Bringing AMP to Gmail

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Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#131

Post by nkrisc »

pmlnr wrote: post #80
nkrisc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet I still use email because I am no longer inundated with spam thanks to the likes of Google and Microsoft. Without them I'd have given up on email altogether.

I run a mailserver with bogofilter, which, with a few months of training, is surprisingly effective. Before that, dspam was also very effective. Spamhaus makes a decent effort on providing blacklists. I don't see what google and M$ is bringing to the table, apart from pain for indie (still validly configured with DMARC, DKIM, SPF) mailservers.

For me they bring to the table everything you just mentioned, except I don't have to do it.

> run a mailserver with bogofilter, which, with a few months of training, is surprisingly effective.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#132

Post by protomyth »

jacquesm wrote: post #108
pmlnr wrote: post #4

I genuinely fear the future of email. Email is still the only piece of communication you can own, from top to bottom, from running the service to owning the domain[^1] it runs on. You were able to send anyone email, regardless of rank, location, social status. Google (and recently, Outlook) is taking all of it away. It's putting mail from people not on your contact list in spam[^3]; it's by default blaclisting IPs wi…

I run my own mail server and Google - for once - seems to play reasonably nice, it is Microsoft and Apple that are the harder cases, in part because they outsourced some of their vetting to third parties. I've been mulling switching to Google or some other email provider for a long time and I still feel that this is the last bit of corporate independence that I'm willing to give up. Our mail is ours . I don't care of…

> I run my own mail server and Google - for once - seems to play reasonably nice

Wait until Google does one of their fun blocks on you for a couple of weeks. They don't have humans involved and just don't have to care.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#133

Post by protomyth »

nugi wrote: post #18

Can you just mine my data unobtrousively instead of screwing with every service I stupidly provide my lifes details? Already migrating, not because of the obvious privacy issues, but useability. How can a company that profits by knowing what people think and talk about, see so little of the house collapsing around them? Even free isn't cheap enough, it has to work. I think I speak for a fair number of HN readers when…

Well, since Google Voice blocked at least one of the US tribal community colleges to save Google some money, I cannot say I was ever a fan. It pointed to me a lack of any sense of empathy. I know we talk about Oracle being a lawnmower, but Google has a lot of parts that trend that way.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#134

Post by yoz-y »

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #124
yoz-y wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Microsoft certainly did not help, but let's not forget that many of these features were made to combat spam which got more sophisticated over time. Having all mail delivered all the time, trusting everybody on the web and so on was fine when internet was for enthusiasts. In today's environment, however, plain old e-mail has insufficient protection and overly optimistic design.

Did not help? I am old and remember email before Google solved spam with Gmail. So they most certainly helped.

Did not help keeping the e-mail decentralized. They did help against the spam. Well, at least google did. Microsoft hotmail was doing spam filtering almost exactly the opposite way it should work for so long that I have completely given up on it.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#135

Post by kingofhdds »

3pt14159 wrote: post #122
jacquesm wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run my own mail server and Google - for once - seems to play reasonably nice, it is Microsoft and Apple that are the harder cases, in part because they outsourced some of their vetting to third parties. I've been mulling switching to Google or some other email provider for a long time and I still feel that this is the last bit of corporate independence that I'm willing to give up. Our mail is ours . I don't care of…

The core problem jacquesm is that we have n-to-n communication with email, no fiscal burden to fire up an email address, and the asynchronous nature of the platform means that its just the perfect target for spam and social engineering. If you want to fix email you can, but it would be better to fix the internet first. Communication should be over an encrypted web of trust. Once you have that then email easily bolts…

I seriously don't understand why you are using such a fear-laden apocalyptic language to describe minor technical issues. Email really works for me pretty fine. And internet too, btw.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#136

Post by yorby »

jonmarkgo wrote: post #62
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #5

How about offering an opt-out for AMP before piling on more crap ?

I noticed that AMP has recently started adding 'apps' to my launcher in Android. I visited Vimeo.com in mobile Chrome and then suddenly a Vimeo app icon with a little AMP symbol showed up in my launcher without any opt-in.

sounds like an easy way to auto-install malware

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#137

Post by ramses0 »

djsumdog wrote: post #55
dannyw wrote: post #9

With AMP for Email, Google is keeping users within Gmail when when they’re interacting with your website or service. The strategy of Google / AMP is clear: using its monopoly to convert the open web into properties of Google. AMP is as “open” as Adobe Flash (Flex, etc) is open. Sure, it may he open source, but it is encumbered by license keys (see: AMP Cache), special privileges (again see: Google search cache), and…

It's like we're back in the days of AOL keywords

Wouldn't that be a bitter end for google?

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#138

Post by newscracker »

avtar wrote: post #106
newscracker wrote: post #92

For those who are frustrated by this, if you can, please show others that there are other options (just like you have done with DuckDuckGo) and switch to any of these (listing only those that are cheap enough to have multiple mailboxes without spending several hundred dollars a year): 1. Posteo.de 2. Mailbox.org 3. Tutanota.com 4. Protonmail.ch I know some people can run their own setup. The above are for people who…

Fastmail is a great alternative as well.

I've heard many people say good things about Fastmail, and I'm sure its worth the praise it gets. But I personally don't recommend it because it gets very expensive if you need more than a couple of mailboxes. The services I listed, at least Posteo and Mailbox, are significantly cheaper for those who need separate mailboxes (not aliases on a single account). I moved from Gmail/Yahoo more than a year ago for just two of my primary mailboxes (one personal and one shared) and it costs me a fraction of what a single mailbox on Fastmail would.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#139

Post by brokenmachine »

nugi wrote: post #18

Can you just mine my data unobtrousively instead of screwing with every service I stupidly provide my lifes details? Already migrating, not because of the obvious privacy issues, but useability. How can a company that profits by knowing what people think and talk about, see so little of the house collapsing around them? Even free isn't cheap enough, it has to work. I think I speak for a fair number of HN readers when…

Also Google Reader. RIP.

Re: Bringing AMP to Gmail

#140

Post by MadQA »

kuschku wrote: post #70
MadQA wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried to check https://postmaster.google.com/ ? You _may_ get an insight on what went wrong those 3 months ago

That requires hundreds or thousands of emails from your domain per day to show anything - which is useful if you run a major service, but for the use case of "every person hosts their own email", it’s not exactly useful.

Well, you're right, though I've seen data in there for domains with about 10k emails per month.

Still, that's probably way over the home email setup threshold.

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