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Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#131

Post by astura »

tgb wrote: post #117
anythingnonidin wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did any of the following apply? > No current or past history of schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders, no Bipolar I or II disorder, and no first or second-degree (“A second-degree relative is defined as a blood relative which includes the individual’s grandparents, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces or half-siblings.”) relatives with these disorders.3 https://tripsafe.org/how-to-take-lsd/#1-avoid-with…

I really dislike this argument. About 1% of US adults have had schizophrenia in the past year. And 2.6% of the adult population has bipolar. Yet at some point in their life they didn't know they were going to have schizophrenia or bipolar! You're arguing that this only affects people with the condition already but if you can't know if you are predisposed for that, then you have to accept that there's risk. I support…

It's the classic "this didn't reeealllly happen" comment I was expecting when I posted.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#132

Post by nicodjimenez »

astura wrote: post #86

My brother went on an Ayahuasca retreat but ended up deeply disappointed that it didn't change his life and his problems got much worse as a result. Of course, that can happen with any treatments as well. However, professional support could maybe mitigate that a bit. Plus actual data may give a better idea of likely outcomes. He then came home and took LSD that caused an episode of psychosis that lasted a couple week…

Thank you for sharing this. I've observed this with friends as well. As Tony Soprano once said: "There is no geographical solution to an emotional problem."

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#133

Post by astura »

anythingnonidin wrote: post #99
astura wrote: post #86

My brother went on an Ayahuasca retreat but ended up deeply disappointed that it didn't change his life and his problems got much worse as a result. Of course, that can happen with any treatments as well. However, professional support could maybe mitigate that a bit. Plus actual data may give a better idea of likely outcomes. He then came home and took LSD that caused an episode of psychosis that lasted a couple week…

Did any of the following apply? > No current or past history of schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders, no Bipolar I or II disorder, and no first or second-degree (“A second-degree relative is defined as a blood relative which includes the individual’s grandparents, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces or half-siblings.”) relatives with these disorders.3 https://tripsafe.org/how-to-take-lsd/#1-avoid-with…

>A second-degree relative is defined as a blood relative which includes the individual’s grandparents, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces or half-siblings

You absolutely do not know the medical history of all those people to know if they have a history of schizophrenia, psychotic disorders, or bipolar disorder. People tend to not talk about their mental illness and these disorders can be well managed with medication. I have 17 aunts and uncles half of which I only see every 3-4 years and one I've never met. Do you think I know what their diagnosises are? Apparently one of my uncles had a really bad heart condition since birth but I didn't even know he did until it killed him in his 60s.

Plus if you just keep adding relatives you'll eventually get one with one of those conditions. You're more asking about family size at that point.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#134

Post by jasonm23 »

kobeya wrote: post #66
nowherecat wrote: post #31

Having had frequent ceremonies over the course of several months I stopped drinking the tea, because I find it is not helping being pulled from one extreme into another. Our western way of life makes it very difficult to integrate the profound experiences that one can get through this medicine and it requires major commitments to change..and it requires good helpers and facilitators. We, as westerners, are often time…

Or psychoactive drugs don’t teach you anything new but rather modify brain functionality such that you feel different. Gaining new belief or believing you have new beliefs are typically indistinguishable from the inside.

Corrective lenses don't teach you anything directly, but you can see more wearing them.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#135

Post by jasonm23 »

cc81 wrote: post #93
nicodjimenez wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, SWIM took DMT and loved it but finds the idea of Ayahuasca very frightening indeed.

It is probably pointless to use "SWIM"

I expect it's not a written confession if someone who isn't me committed a crime.

Although IANAL.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#136

Post by astura »

nicodjimenez wrote: post #132
astura wrote: post #86

My brother went on an Ayahuasca retreat but ended up deeply disappointed that it didn't change his life and his problems got much worse as a result. Of course, that can happen with any treatments as well. However, professional support could maybe mitigate that a bit. Plus actual data may give a better idea of likely outcomes. He then came home and took LSD that caused an episode of psychosis that lasted a couple week…

Thank you for sharing this. I've observed this with friends as well. As Tony Soprano once said: "There is no geographical solution to an emotional problem."

"There is no geographical solution to an emotional problem." - I really wish someone told me this 30 years ago. My above mentioned brother and I grew up with very abusive parents which cased significant emotional problems in both of us. I tried to solve mine by moving across the country. For anyone who is reading this - that really doesn't work!

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#137

Post by kobeya »

odammit wrote: post #85
kobeya wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three screenfuls of a run on paragraph does not convince me of a desirable outcome.

Most acid trips feel like a run on sentence. It’s the perfect medium for describing one :D

Sure, but this comment was supposed to convince me do undergo hallucinogenic treatment because it can be profound experience, or something. I'm not really sure actually, but it does say that in the first sentence.

The actual result could not have been more different. I'll Nope out of that one, thank you.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#138

Post by kobeya »

nowherecat wrote: post #101
kobeya wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or psychoactive drugs don’t teach you anything new but rather modify brain functionality such that you feel different. Gaining new belief or believing you have new beliefs are typically indistinguishable from the inside.

Well, could’t You say the same thing about experiences of any nature? For example: our thoughts always affect our body/mind .. if I take a drug or in the case of ayahuasca an entheogen, it creates a non ordinary state of consciousness, which -if strong enough- can permanently change the way I feel and act. The same you could achieve by meditating on a regular basis or going on a long trip, having a traumatic experien…

It permanently changes you by causing conditions by which your brain rewires itself. For psychiatric patients that is often a good thing because where they are at is not a good place. But why would you throw a spanner in the works if you're already a well adjusted individual?

If you want to be content and enjoy life, why not get a lobotomy. It's a more consistent result. Oh you don't want to do that to your brain? Well acid may have different mechanisms but can trigger similarly drastic effects, it's just now you've introduced a roll of the die, and I'm not a fan of gambling without a winning strategy.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#139

Post by kobeya »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #76
kobeya wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or psychoactive drugs don’t teach you anything new but rather modify brain functionality such that you feel different. Gaining new belief or believing you have new beliefs are typically indistinguishable from the inside.

What is different between having a new belief and having your brain functionality modified such that you indistinguishably genuinely feel you have a new belief? Wouldn't the act of integrating a new belief also modify your brain functionality somehow? Not trying to start an esoteric argument, I'm interested if there's an actual answer to that.

You can profoundly understand something because you understand the mechanism of its working and have deeply integrated it into your mental model of the world. Or you can "profoundly understand" something by having your brain remember what it feels like to profoundly understand, and enter that state in association with the new belief. Even if the belief is wrong (and you will never see that it is wrong).

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#140

Post by ianai »

freeloop2 wrote: post #129
ianai wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the US still throws people away for going near drugs I’d say the pendulum doesn’t need to swing further the same direction.

Most countries do this. I don't know why people always pick on the US in this regard.

Highest per capital inceration rate.
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