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As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

nytimes.com

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Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#131

Post by cookiecaper »

Glyptodon wrote: post #124
mywittyname wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $50,000 in Fort Lauderdale is as good as $120,000 in the valley. No, it's really not -- it's actually more like $77,000[1]. With the bulk of the difference being driven by housing prices. And $77,000 is actually above the average salary for a SE in Ft. Lauderdale (according to Glassdoor: $73,000). [1] http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-l...

So I'm in essentially this situation and I concur that my salary does not completely adjust to an SV/Bay Area salary. But there are also 3 things that do not seem possible at once despite the extra money which keep me from pursuing opportunities in tech hubs: I'm ~5 minutes from biking/hiking/outdoors, ~10 minutes from work, and have a house with a shop/garage. So far as I can tell if I were to move to a tech hub I m…

Yes. The thing to remember about these SV people is that they're mostly single people or working couples who are living in ridiculously tight spaces like these "microapartments". [0] They're forced out after having a kid or two.

Almost anywhere else in the country, that $2200/mo will get you quite the spread; you can trade off between square footage, neighborhood, and commute time, but you're going to have very nice accommodations if you're willing to put that much money up. In SF, you're lucky if you can get a 1-bd for that, and LA is only slightly better.

While the price of goods doesn't fluctuate as much, housing is a HUGE factor. If you want something functional for a family of 4 (or if you just like a lot of space), you are going to be paying at least $4000/mo in these tech hubs, or living 60 min+ away.

Florida also has no income tax, v. California's rate between 7.5% and 13.3%. That is a big dent too.

One other note. If you have the skills, look for remote work in companies that pay rates that are higher than you get paid in your local market. It's a great way to make the COL differential work even more in your favor.

[0] http://sf.curbed.com/2016/3/30/11332920/rent-small-soma-micr...

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#132

Post by djsumdog »

throwaway729 wrote: post #98

> For the most part, this is all true in, say, Tulsa. Especially if you stay off Facebook. Really only the cost of living. > Commuting is less wearying Not really. There's a near zero percent chance your commute involves anything other than driving. The walkable areas of midwestern cities are certainly cheaper than SF, but they're also not exactly cheap. You're still looking at half a million for a decent house, 200k…

I never owned a car in Wellington. The bus and train system is excellent.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#134

Post by RowanH »

mistermann wrote: post #93
TheAlchemist wrote: post #13

That's interesting ! I'm intending to make a move with my family in near future, and we actually went to visit the northern island for 15 days last month. The country is really beautiful, and there are not a lot of people around, so you can't help but feel blessed by the surrounding nature. The people are great, probably the nicest I've ever seen (as a whole). I've noted some cons though (not blocking for us thankful…

> housing prices are extremely high. I don't understand that, Same problem Canada has: interest rates below the rate of (real, unadjusted) inflation, and no limitations on foreign ownership of real estate (a major catalyst, at least , for a bubble).

People are immigrating faster than houses can be built which is a major factor...

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#135

Post by RowanH »

bspn wrote: post #61
TheAlchemist wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't looked at Christchurch - we assumed that as most people live in the northern island, we will probably end up here, so we preferred to spend full time there. For food, it seems like for the food problem it's also caused by the lack of 'culinary education' as we may call it in France. Children are eating bad food very early and those habits stick for life. We too have kids, and it looks like an amazing place…

With respect to kids, one thing that surprised me was that almost everyone I spoke to lived within walking distance of their kids' school and were more than happy to let their kids find their own way to and from school unsupervised! I don't know whether they were just trolling me, but it seems like a lot of the fears we have here in the US don't exist so much in NZ.

Not trolling you. It's a thing here. I did when I was a kid, and still happens today.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#136

Post by joshontheweb »

lj3 wrote: post #86
TheAlchemist wrote: post #13

That's interesting ! I'm intending to make a move with my family in near future, and we actually went to visit the northern island for 15 days last month. The country is really beautiful, and there are not a lot of people around, so you can't help but feel blessed by the surrounding nature. The people are great, probably the nicest I've ever seen (as a whole). I've noted some cons though (not blocking for us thankful…

> We were pretty much shocked because we naively thought that in such a beautiful and clean country everybody is running / biking all the time. Surprisingly, NZ is not a good place for cycling. A guy and his wife[0] did a world cycling tour a while back and Wellington is the only place where he had serious issues with the locals[1]. [0]: http://www.pathlesspedaled.com/ [1]: https://www.seattlebikeblog.com/2012/01/12/…

I would actually be quite scared to bicycle in NZ. Especially in the rural areas. The roads are often narrow and winding without shoulders to speak of.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#137

Post by cookiecaper »

throwaway729 wrote: post #130
cookiecaper wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes that one's politics align with the politics and hostile culture in California. I intentionally avoid living in CA due to its culture/politics and have turned down multiple bona fide relocation offers to CA. Like all places, the Midwest is not without its unhappy quirks or its difficult people, but Midwesterners are noticeably polite and friendly, even coming from other "flyover" regions. Yes, they are ge…

> This assumes that one's politics align with the politics and hostile culture in California. I intentionally avoid living in CA due to its culture/politics and have turned down multiple bona fide relocation offers to CA. This is certainly true! To each his own. My point was that the midwest probably isn't a great place to be if you're looking for "cheaper California". Sounds like we agree on that. > When I lived in…

>"Not being fired for being gay" is literally the lowest bar I can think of other that "not being imprisoned for being gay".

The point is that the community at large was willing to accept these people as role models for their children and did so with minimal hostility or interference (visible anyway, since I can't see what happens behind closed doors). Entrusting a teaching position is a little different than any other random job.

While I'm sure there are horror stories, in practice it would be very rare to find someone who was legitimately "fired for being gay".

The myth that Republican areas are hostile wastelands with poor quality of life for minorities has much more to do with confirmation bias and a desire to justify high cost of living than anything else, IMO. This is not to discount any personal experience you may have had, just my opinion on the sentiment in general.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#138

Post by FungalRaincloud »

ericd wrote: post #58
FungalRaincloud wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it's plausible that we could make enough to get by doing work that isn't fulfilling. Building websites for local churches, for example, can pay well enough to at least keep the lights on, and there's plenty of that sort of work. Trouble is, it can be career killing to be out of the game for a few months, especially if web dev is not what you want to be doing.

Being out of work for a few months isn't career killing. There may be some correlation, but it's not causal - I know plenty of people who've chosen not to work for a few months that I'd hire in a heartbeat. They do generally work on interesting projects, though.

It's not the time off, but rather, how you fill that time off that I am arguing is career stunting. If you have to work on uninteresting, non-career aiding work for a few months to make ends meet, you aren't likely to be working on interesting projects during that time.

e: changed killing to stunting, because I do believe that it is recoverable.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#139

Post by blanket_the_cat »

Cool, now you can help develop clever mechanisms to exfiltrate information and wealth from end users and consolidate capital into the hands of those who already possess more than they need, from the picturesque, rolling green hills of sunny New Zealand... Wake me up when the tech scene in Monrovia is booming out of control.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#140

Post by throwaway729 »

djsumdog wrote: post #132
throwaway729 wrote: post #98

> For the most part, this is all true in, say, Tulsa. Especially if you stay off Facebook. Really only the cost of living. > Commuting is less wearying Not really. There's a near zero percent chance your commute involves anything other than driving. The walkable areas of midwestern cities are certainly cheaper than SF, but they're also not exactly cheap. You're still looking at half a million for a decent house, 200k…

I never owned a car in Wellington. The bus and train system is excellent.

Since some people feel I'm being unfair to the midwest, I'll mention:

* Chicago has a pretty decent public transit systems.

* MSP and St. Louis both have decent light rail systems for their size. Still pitiful compared to most of western Europe or Wellington (the latter due to the comparably poor bus systems in msp and stl), but also cheaper on the tax base of course. And not too shabby compared to Portland for example.

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