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As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

nytimes.com

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Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#91

Post by sidlls »

flexie wrote: post #22
ryandrake wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, like Tulsa, I'd be worried about what happens when that tech company, which I moved myself and my family halfway around the world for, goes under and I'm out of work. I'm sure there is more than one tech company in Auckland, but how many? And how many of those will want to hire me? And out of those how many will I want to work for? And out of those, how many will pay enough where it makes sense for me to stay? T…

Wouldn't most tech guys be able to support a family working for any of the local web developers, app developers or IT departments of non tech companies that you find all over Florida, New Zealand and most of the Western world? In urban areas of Florida and New Zealand you will find these jobs everywhere within a 5 mile radius. Maybe not always so interesting or well paying as some jobs in IT corporations, but good to…

> $50,000 in Fort Lauderdale is as good as $120,000 in the valley.

Not really. The quality of life on just about any axis, from parks and recreation to culture to education in Ft. Lauderdale is just inferior. Also, $50k doesn't go as far as you think there. There are a number of day-to-day and intangible costs (e.g. commute) that are actually less expensive in the valley.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#92

Post by mistermann »

humanrebar wrote: post #3

> For all sorts of reasons, New Zealand suddenly makes sense. The cost of living is less than in San Francisco. Commuting is less wearying. And American politics, “Brexit” and the Islamic State are on the other side of the world. For the most part, this is all true in, say, Tulsa. Especially if you stay off Facebook. You especially don't have to go to New Zealand to find a cheaper, commuter-friendly place to work. No…

> Especially if you stay off Facebook.

And stop talking to people.

What you're saying, at least in a sense, is there's no cultural difference between the two places.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#93

Post by mistermann »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #13

That's interesting ! I'm intending to make a move with my family in near future, and we actually went to visit the northern island for 15 days last month. The country is really beautiful, and there are not a lot of people around, so you can't help but feel blessed by the surrounding nature. The people are great, probably the nicest I've ever seen (as a whole). I've noted some cons though (not blocking for us thankful…

> housing prices are extremely high. I don't understand that,

Same problem Canada has: interest rates below the rate of (real, unadjusted) inflation, and no limitations on foreign ownership of real estate (a major catalyst, at least, for a bubble).

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#94

Post by cylinder »

I love how these comments always boil down to salary and cost of living arguments. People, (mostly Americans), you're doing it wrong. What kind of fool moves to a remote island in the middle of nowhere and then expects to somehow still earn as much as in the United States? This is not the right reason to expatriate. Go because you love NZ (or X country) not because you want to leave America. Go because you like the lifestyle and traditions the locals live, not because you want to transport your high earning consumer abundance life into a different country. You will be doomed for failure if you do.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#95

Post by pilom »

ryandrake wrote: post #81
besogno wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average income of a programmer is as relevant as the average income of a musician. It will not tell you anything about how much Lady Gaga makes, or the fact that the richest man in the world is a programmer. This kind of averages could possibly be relevant for bricklayers, but even in that case I doubt it.

Lady Gaga's wealth/success is about as relevant to a musician as Bill Gates's is to a software engineer. The averages are very relevant.

The GP's point is that Median Income would be valuable but "average" i.e. Mean Income, is much less valuable.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#96

Post by gravypod »

I don't think New Zealand's selling point will ever be isolation. To have isolation you need to have a place with very lax laws where people don't want to bother you. New Zealand is very beautiful and interesting but there are still many laws and many people who want to bother you.

Maybe this is "isolation" in a previously unheard of, to me, sense where you just don't want to be a citizen of a major nation or something? I don't know. For what I think of as "isolation" NZ is too draconian.

Higher taxes and stricter laws really make it a no go for many people.

When 50k USD lands you in the highest tax bracket (30%), when everything tech related is more expensive, and you're a software engineer it's a hard sell.

NZ's biggest selling points are low crime, low unemployment, interesting area, and attractive social programs. It's definetly not an isolationist paradise unless you define isolationist as being "not in America, Middle East, or Europe" which this article seems happy to do.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#97

Post by flog »

agentile wrote: post #67

A while back I was going through the immigration process for NZ with an immigration lawyer and had all the points necessary and was moving on to the interview phase. My wife and I ultimately decided to stop as she became pregnant and didn't want to be as far away from family. That and the flight/quarantine times that would be imposed for our dogs. Another big issue was taxes. To my knowledge NZ and USA are two countr…

You would find that NZ has a very user-friendly tax system. For the most part there is no need for a tax return for a private citizen in FTE.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#98

Post by throwaway729 »

> For the most part, this is all true in, say, Tulsa. Especially if you stay off Facebook.

Really only the cost of living.

> Commuting is less wearying

Not really.

There's a near zero percent chance your commute involves anything other than driving. The walkable areas of midwestern cities are certainly cheaper than SF, but they're also not exactly cheap. You're still looking at half a million for a decent house, 200k for a decent condo, and that's on a midwestern salary. Not to mention the weather.

And if you're driving, well, driving is driving.

> And American politics, “Brexit” and the Islamic State are on the other side of the world... [can be avoided] Especially if you stay off Facebook.

I mean, I guess you can just avoid talking to people altogether, but avoiding Facebook is no way to avoid the nastier parts of American populist politics in the midwest, which is decidedly Trump's America. On my last visit I learned that there are still people who very strongly believe that Obama is a Muslim and Clinton is a witch (literally, as in worships satan. I'm not exaggerating and they weren't being coy with language). And I wasn't even seeking them out, they were just the people I was obligated to spend time with.

So no, the midwest isn't some cheaper version of California. There's a reason why people like me leave after a few decades and never look back. The weather sucks, the cities are either unlivable or not appreciably cheaper, and there's a high concentration of extremely unpleasant people.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#99

Post by Cyph0n »

rconti wrote: post #73

Funny how it goes from appealing to "American Lord of the Rings nerds and Peter Thiel" really quickly. Had our honeymoon in New Zealand and really loved it. Auckland and Wellington are both beautiful, but, frankly, I'd rather be somewhere more relaxed like Nelson. I wish we had spent more time enjoying the south island and less time up north. Not so practical if you're trying to find work, though, I suppose. (I didn'…

My target is to live in Sweden after I finish grad school. I've been looking at ECE positions to gauge the market, and it strangely seems pretty small. The good thing is that Sweden has a special 1 year work visa deal with several countries including Australia, which I am a citizen of. My plan is to use that year to do some direct job hunting and also make sure I like the country!

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#100

Post by flog »

zinckiwi wrote: post #14

I'm an expat kiwi would would have loved to move back from the US over the past few years, but unfortunately it suffers from a similar problem to the San Fran/SV scene here. Most tech employers are in Auckland, and the housing prices are insane. Remote work isn't embraced even a tenth of what it could or should be. I love it there, but for the kind of environment I'd need (affordable family home + strong job propsect…

Ditto – I think even on a like-for-like comparison housing in SF (I just moved to Alameda) is cheaper than back in Auckland/Wellington. Wages are certainly higher anyhow.
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