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SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

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131–140 of 497 posts

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#131

I remain confused about why SpaceX is getting so much fanfare and praise. What have they accomplished that NASA didn't already accomplish during the Apollo missions? I know SpaceX is doing it all more cost effectively, because we have better technology, but have they actually accomplished anything tangible that NASA didn't a generation ago?

The Apollo missions were one-offs. They left nothing behind that future missions could utilize. Everything was disposed of after use, even Spacelab which had a very short life and completed a specific programme of missions and then burned up.

The shuttle was the first attempt at re-usability but was far too expensive to be viable. Only the space station is genuinely long term re-useable infrastructure. It's something you can actually use as a platform for further missions beyond it's initial purpose but it also has been excessively expensive. We can't go on like this. Nobody is talking about a replacement space station, the appetite just isn't there. Unless somebody does something, the space station might be the last long term repeatedly occupied human habitat in space.

SpaceX is doing something about that. If they really can reduce launch costs by a factor of 100:1, it will change the fundamental economics of everything we do in space. Suddenly going to the moon stops being a pointless gesture and becomes an economically viable long term proposition. Human habitats in space of the scale of the ISS or bigger become affordable. They're even talking about colonizing Mars and plan to do what's effectively a tech demo of that in 2018.

For the first time the rocket man dreams of the 1970s look like they could actually happen. For a lot of people, that's pretty exciting.

P.S. Downvotes for this question? Really? I'm as much a fan of SpaceX as anyone but it's a fair question, SpaceX haven't even launched one of their recovered rockets yet.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Permanent decrease in launch mass is big money, whereas complications on the barge do not really matter. Like all good engineering problems, it only looks problematic at first sight and I am sure that SpaceX could rise up to the challenge. Use a big funnel mesh? However, I accept the comment that perhaps they are really practising for landings on Mars, where fair number of probes have overturned on landing.

> Use a big funnel mesh? I'm not sure you realize just how fragile the stage is. The side walls are made of _very_ thin aluminum. Any landing support mechanism must put the impact force on the 'octaweb' structure that supports the engines. That's the advantage of the legs. They can be engineered to distribute the force exactly where they want it. A significant problem with any sort of "catching" mechanism is that the…

...or how big it is. That's a 12 storey empty beercan, on fire, hurtling in from space. Any catching hack would require the stage to slow down anyway.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow I suspect they have run the numbers.

What numbers? Unsecured cargo is unsecured cargo. A metal object sitting on a flat metal deck gets tied/braced/chained.

By whom? The drone ship has no on-board crew.

... which means there's nobody around to be injured or killed if the rocket falls post-landing. Maybe it's a precaution worth taking when they intend these stages for commercial re-use; for now, the whole thing is one big experiment.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#134
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh, I completely agree. I'm Canadian and it's been a dream of mine for a long time to work for SpaceX. I'll gladly take a big paycut and live in bumfuck nowhere, California to do it (my wife is another story but that's a different discussion). But every time this USA chant comes up I just imagine what it would be like to be in that crowd and be absolutely exhilarated at each success - not just for the company but fo…

> you just KNOW What a complete load of utter tripe. Its a bunch of people getting excited and happy and celebrating success. That's it. Are England supporters chanting after a soccer match aggro-patriotic douchebags? The SpaceX crowd aren't even celebrating a victory over anybody, it's purely about achievement. Good for them.

> Are England supporters chanting after a soccer match aggro-patriotic douchebags?

Aggro-patriotic douchebaggery isn't exactly unheard of when it comes to football stadiums. For some it's a feature, for most others it's a very well known bug.

Also, you seem to have completely missed his finer point: a nuanced distinction between those who start and those who just sing along because they are in the mood for making noise, any noise.

PS: of all the stadium noises, the "god save the queen" of England supporters is by far the most enjoyable (and I say that as a german)

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#135
post #28

I always try to watch the webcasts and I can't help but cringe so hard when they start chanting 'USA USA USA', every single time. What is up with that?

It's tribalism, which is never good, no matter how common or accepted it might be in certain regions or cultures.

Much the same as sports fans cheering for their teams or extreme nationalists at a political rally, chanting such as this is symtomatic of an "us versus them" and/or a "we are better than them" mentality.

I feel pride in SpaceX accomplishments even though I have in no way contributed to their success because I see them advancing the state of the art in spaceflight for humanity. And I am a human.

I hear Elon's stated goal of "making life multi-planetary", and perhaps it sounds idealistic or corny, but I genuinely belive in that goal; I think it is important and I am proud that there are other humans on this planet who are making a concerted effort to see it happen.

I do not object specifically to what they chant: chanting "SpaceX" would be very much just as bad. I follow SpaceX not for its own sake or because I think SpaceX is "good" and others are "bad", but because of what they do and what they plan to do. Chanting "SpaceX" would be showing support for the SpaceX-tribal-team as opposed to the ULA-tribal-team or NASA-tribal-team. It is not the team itself that is special, the team is not better than other teams due to intrinsic virtues, it is what the team has accomplished that is important. Let the accomplishments speak for themselves.

There is at least one chant I would have no problem with: "Humanity! Humanity! Humanity!". Perhaps it's not quite as catchy, but at least it would put things into the proper perspective.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or not, because the next best alternative is much more expensive than SpaceX's current pricing. We're dealing with a corporation -- I'm not sure we can count of them to "pass on the savings".

Aren't they passing on the savings by bidding lower prices than their competitors?

Only marginally - if none of their competitors can reuse a rocket then they only need to undercut the cost of a non-reusable rocket. The reward for innovation is that you get a temporary monopoly on that innovation and so can extract something very like a monopoly rent.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow I suspect they have run the numbers.

What numbers? Unsecured cargo is unsecured cargo. A metal object sitting on a flat metal deck gets tied/braced/chained.

They will of course have modelled the cargo scenario, and I suspect that Musk means that it's nice and stable when they do that -- but then shipping norms come into play because, like you say, unsecured cargo is unsecured cargo.

It needs to be both stable and secured, because only one is inviting woe.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#138
post #28

I always try to watch the webcasts and I can't help but cringe so hard when they start chanting 'USA USA USA', every single time. What is up with that?

I suspect it's some kind of PR stunt for when the video reaches the media. It's OK the first time but after that, not so much.

You seriously think the SpaceX PR department is encouraging their employees to chant for... any reason? This is just a bunch of people who are proud of their accomplishment, and proud of the nation that has fostered the environment that allows them to achieve those accomplishments.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#139
post #135
post #28

I always try to watch the webcasts and I can't help but cringe so hard when they start chanting 'USA USA USA', every single time. What is up with that?

It's tribalism, which is never good, no matter how common or accepted it might be in certain regions or cultures. Much the same as sports fans cheering for their teams or extreme nationalists at a political rally, chanting such as this is symtomatic of an "us versus them" and/or a "we are better than them" mentality. I feel pride in SpaceX accomplishments even though I have in no way contributed to their success beca…

"Humans! Humans! Humans!" Yeah... that wouldn't be creepy at all...

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first recovered stage, F9-021, has already been static fired and will likely end up as a monument outside of SpaceX HQ as they've filed an FAA request to do so. https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action... The second recovered rocket, F9-023, will be relaunched. It has already been static fired with no announced problems. Elon said it'd be a few months before a customer was announced, but the g…

Do customers get a discount for launching on a used rocket?

The rumor mill says that they're asking about $40m (the usual cost is $62m). SES are said to be interested, for $30m. Discussions are ongoing.
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