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SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

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Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#81
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tribal chant, which is a bit different to having pride. Obviously the SpaceX staff can do whatever they want when they're celebrating a successful launch and landing. But all non-Americans who are watching and also feeling a lot of pride in what the company has achieved instantly feel alienated when the chant gets going because it's exclusionary. Whether the staff care about this alienation is another matter,…

> But all non-Americans who are watching and also feeling a lot of pride in what the company has achieved instantly feel alienated when the chant gets going because it's exclusionary. Yes, it is, and yes, as an non-American I feel alienated. But I suck it up. Because I'm just a supporter. A fanboy, for a lack of better world. In reality, this is not my success, but the success of men and women working there, almost e…

Most people aren't gay. Yet we still consider their feelings when we question hateful language. Most people aren't disabled. Yet every office building in the western world has wheelchair ramps and disabled bathrooms.

Why alienate the employees who are working for the good of the Company, and the good of Humanity without considering the benefits for the Country (which is arbitrary and hereditary all too often) with no net benefit? (I highly doubt the USA chants are necessary for cohesion and unity at SpaceX)

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#82
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But all non-Americans who are watching and also feeling a lot of pride in what the company has achieved instantly feel alienated when the chant gets going because it's exclusionary. Yes, it is, and yes, as an non-American I feel alienated. But I suck it up. Because I'm just a supporter. A fanboy, for a lack of better world. In reality, this is not my success, but the success of men and women working there, almost e…

I didn't really look it up but it would be hard to believe SpaceX being a strictly American company with 100% American workforce. Hell, even if it were, it would still be troublesome if the company didn't position itself as an American nationalistic company - think about all the stakeholders. Maybe some supporters wouldn't be so passionate and some suppliers wouldn't be so perfectionist if they felt they were there f…

I didn't say strictly American, I said they're employing "almost exclusively" Americans. Which logically follows from rocket technology being regulated under ITAR.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#83
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it makes the whole think look like a Trump rally. Have some class, show some dignity.

the world has changed... in older generations you were allowed to be patriotic without being dumped on

Please move to /r/lewronggeneration :)

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#84
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please explain why this is a bad thing? American industry pushing the envelope and the people doing it aren't allowed to have pride?

Because it makes the whole think look like a Trump rally. Have some class, show some dignity.

I find your insinuation that by simply chanting U-S-A an entire group of people can be described as classless and without dignity to be troubling.

I work at SpaceX. I was not born in the US and although I now hold US citizenship and consider myself thoroughly American, I usually refrain from taking part in these chants. I do this not as a kind of silent protest against them, but because I simply don't like showing such outward exuberance as I have an extremely reserved personality. I’m the kind of person that would prefer to sit quietly during a sporting event rather than shout or clap. With that being said, the U-S-A chants don’t bother me and it's somewhat disheartening to see them consistently brought up as reflecting poorly on the employees at SpaceX.

I will also add that as an American even I have sometimes, particularly during my childhood living in Texas, felt uncomfortable with some of the more boisterous ways Americans tend to express feelings of national pride, so I can understand why others may find this troubling. It took me some time to realize that in the overwhelming majority of cases, there is no malice or jingoistic sentiment behind these expressions, and in fact I don’t even view them as exclusionary. It may be difficult for someone who hasn’t spent a lot of time living in the US to understand just how innocuous and widespread things like the USA chants are. Its simply something that is easy to say and catchy, while declaring pride in your country.

There are many employees here who aren’t natural born US citizens whom I see join in the chants. In fact, I’ve seen non US citizens working here join in as well.

I understand that I say this having adapted to American cultural norms, and I’m trying my best to be understanding of the opposing views. I personally don’t find it difficult to feel a sense of wonderment, respect and admiration towards the accomplishments of other countries, even when those countries view said accomplishments as matters of national pride and I am finding it hard to understand why so many others seem to be bothered by this.

It’s also important to note that the space program is, in my opinion, one of the few things that still elicit a strong sense of national pride and achievement across political lines here in the US. The American public still today seems to be aware of the broad national policies that have led and continue to lead to the achievements of our space program and rightfully feel a sense of pride in their successes. The accomplishments of SpaceX don’t exist in a vacuum and many of us working here realize a shared sense of gratitude that we owe the American taxpayer.

I also find it a bit strange that in my experience other nationalities, in particular those from Europe, tend to view Americans as rather close minded and without much understanding of foreign cultures. While I agree that in general this is definitely something that Americans need to work on, in this case I’m struck by the irony of the commenters here singling out a cultural “quirk” as has been described by others, and subsequently drawing negative conclusions about it despite the fact that I can see no way in which the U-S-A chants can possibly be misconstrued as denigrating of any other countries.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#86
post #28

I always try to watch the webcasts and I can't help but cringe so hard when they start chanting 'USA USA USA', every single time. What is up with that?

Ugh, I completely agree. I'm Canadian and it's been a dream of mine for a long time to work for SpaceX. I'll gladly take a big paycut and live in bumfuck nowhere, California to do it (my wife is another story but that's a different discussion). But every time this USA chant comes up I just imagine what it would be like to be in that crowd and be absolutely exhilarated at each success - not just for the company but fo…

I think I read somewhere that they can only employ US citizens because of government and military contracts. So by definition everyone working there would be American anyway.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But all non-Americans who are watching and also feeling a lot of pride in what the company has achieved instantly feel alienated when the chant gets going because it's exclusionary. Yes, it is, and yes, as an non-American I feel alienated. But I suck it up. Because I'm just a supporter. A fanboy, for a lack of better world. In reality, this is not my success, but the success of men and women working there, almost e…

Most people aren't gay. Yet we still consider their feelings when we question hateful language. Most people aren't disabled. Yet every office building in the western world has wheelchair ramps and disabled bathrooms. Why alienate the employees who are working for the good of the Company, and the good of Humanity without considering the benefits for the Country (which is arbitrary and hereditary all too often) with no…

I don't see how chanting for a group, without any implicit or explicit diminishment of other groups compares to hate speech against sexual minorities. Also, chants are not a company policy, it's what employees spontaneously do in their own private space, which you saw on their own private broadcast.

(If we're bringing SJW approach into this, then I think you're advocating the minority (SpaceX employees) should adapt to the random cultural expectations of the entitled majority, or whatever.)

If you're saying they should be more considerate, that's fine, but they're free to disregard that opinion.

Personally, I refuse to get outraged - outrage is more often than not a problem with the person who choses to indulge it.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#88
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Securing is purely a safety precaution, it's not actually required. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/726218218109444096

With respect to Musk, that is total bunk. Any structure like this will have to be secured to the deck. The fact that it is a rocket doesn't matter. He may think that it is safe from falling over, but the insurance company and/or the health and safety people will tell him that cargo that tall needs to be secured. Ropes, chains, welding ... it cannot just sit there. A Volvo station wagon, on that deck at sea, would be…

Somehow I suspect they have run the numbers.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#89
post #28

I always try to watch the webcasts and I can't help but cringe so hard when they start chanting 'USA USA USA', every single time. What is up with that?

Ugh, I completely agree. I'm Canadian and it's been a dream of mine for a long time to work for SpaceX. I'll gladly take a big paycut and live in bumfuck nowhere, California to do it (my wife is another story but that's a different discussion). But every time this USA chant comes up I just imagine what it would be like to be in that crowd and be absolutely exhilarated at each success - not just for the company but fo…

As someone who works here and doesn't join in the chants but works closely with and respects many of the people that do, I find your description of them as "douchebags" to be rather uncalled for.

You are certainly free to disagree with the chants or the overall tone that celebrations like this set within the company, but I don't think that resorting to personal insults is the best approach to having a nuanced discussion on the topic.

Re: SpaceX lands rocket at sea second time after satellite launch

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect to Musk, that is total bunk. Any structure like this will have to be secured to the deck. The fact that it is a rocket doesn't matter. He may think that it is safe from falling over, but the insurance company and/or the health and safety people will tell him that cargo that tall needs to be secured. Ropes, chains, welding ... it cannot just sit there. A Volvo station wagon, on that deck at sea, would be…

Somehow I suspect they have run the numbers.

What numbers? Unsecured cargo is unsecured cargo. A metal object sitting on a flat metal deck gets tied/braced/chained.
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