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I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

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Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#121
post #40

Shortage is a tricky political term. Reality doesn't work like that. X positions and Y candidates. It depends on the quality of candidates and salary. Better programmers, and companies can hire more. Higher salaries and more people will become programmers. That said, 2 counter points. First point is the speed the profession has been expanding. Programming is and has been (barring the dotcom bubble burst) an area of f…

"needs to hire really fast".

When I was but a wee pollywog, it was pointed out to me that most open positions are never advertised in any way. Instead, when a position opens up, the hiring manager looks at the pile of resumes that are already on file.

For that specific reason, I applied to companies based on whether I'd like to work there, rather than whether they had any openings. One such company interviewed me immediately, but waited two years to actually hire me. That job actually worked out really well.

I don't actually know but have reason to believe that that's not commonly the case anymore. That is, my impression is that companies don't solicit resumes unless they have a specific opening.

From time to time I find a "Jobs" website that specifically says "We are not accepting applications at this time" or "We have no open positions".

By contrast, some others will say "We are always looking for great people, please send us your resume".

One might at first think that it's not a big deal for a position to be unfilled for a period of time. But consider that a company typically expects an employee to be worth twice their pay.

That is, if a software engineer is paid $100,000.00 per year, then to be considered truly qualified for their job, they must write $200,000.00 worth of software during that same year.

That's not $100,000.00 of pure profit. Actually that's the breakeven point - that is, writing $200,000.01 worth of code in a year would yield one cent of profit!

There are considerations of office space leasing, all manner of other costs like the equipment and software the employee requires, telephone, internet, electricity.

That "twice your salary" figure isn't specific to coders, my understanding is that that's regarded as the rule of thumb for the value of every employee, in every line of work.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#122
post #70
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every company has it's own "books" they want you to read. At Facebook you work on a social network, at Google on a search engine. If you apply to 10 jobs, you need to read 10 different books. "But you can't be arsed to make that small investment in yourself before applying for a new job?" Bills don't pay themselves. Why can't you, the employer, be arsed to make that small investment in your new employee? You're the o…

If you're needing to read 10 different books you are doing a very poor job of picking companies to apply to. If you're a python developer, it wouldn't make sense for you to apply for a ruby job, a nodejs job, a C++ job, and a java job - thus requiring 4 books. Instead, you should apply to 4 companies looking for python developers, then you need one book at most, unless you've already master the language in which case…

I'm a consultant, I take the work that the clients offer.

Most commonly I'm asked to write the Macintosh equivalent of some existing Windows program. While I know lots of stuff about Mac and Windows, it's quite common that I don't have a clue about anything else that that program requires, other than the core OS and standard library calls.

The way it commonly works is that I'll apply for a consulting gig. If I'm asked to interview, I'll buy the required book after I have agreed to interview, but before the interview takes place. That means I only have a few days to read the book.

You'd think that would not work but actually it works just fine.

What does not work at all is when someone wants to know how many years of experience I already have with a given technology. "None at all, but I can buy an O'Reilly book for just thirty bucks."

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#123
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Coming from the companies perspective, if I have 10 applicants for a job, the first round of people to get cut will be those who don't have experience with our tech stack. If I have other applicants who already are familiar with it, it wouldn't make sense to hire someone who would need to learn a new language first." This approach to hiring sacrifices long-term productivity gains for short-term productivity gains. A…

> A really smart and experienced developer who doesn't know your tech stack I really question whether that exists or not. The kind of developer you are referring to by and large knows how good they are and has no problem finding a job with a tech stack they are already familiar with. Additionally, this kind of person wouldn't move to a new language without trying it out first and likely comparing its features to a ha…

Actually, I am that specific smart and experienced developer. I find that no one believes I have a clue anymore.

For example I was once asked whether I knew how to write Mac OS X Apps. I pointed out that I had been writing Macintosh code since 1986.

I did not get the job because the hiring manager did not believe me, when I claimed I knew how to write Mac OS X programs.

From time to time, while I don't come right out and say so explicitly, I make it plainly apparent that I regard the hiring manager as a damnfool idiot.

That's not to imply that one must understand computer programming to employ computer programmers. I've had lots of really good managers - consulting clients too - who really didn't have the first clue about computers.

However, there is quite a lot more to management, than understanding what your employees actually do.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#124
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Coming from the companies perspective, if I have 10 applicants for a job, the first round of people to get cut will be those who don't have experience with our tech stack. If I have other applicants who already are familiar with it, it wouldn't make sense to hire someone who would need to learn a new language first." This approach to hiring sacrifices long-term productivity gains for short-term productivity gains. A…

> A really smart and experienced developer who doesn't know your tech stack I really question whether that exists or not. The kind of developer you are referring to by and large knows how good they are and has no problem finding a job with a tech stack they are already familiar with. Additionally, this kind of person wouldn't move to a new language without trying it out first and likely comparing its features to a ha…

"a tech stack they are already familiar with".

Like 16-bit assembly code?

PC-NFS?

How to diagnose a serial cable problem with a breakout box and an oscilloscope?

How to calibrate a CCD image sensor?

So how are today's iOS coders going to feed their hungry children when no one remembers what an iPhone even was anymore?

I quite commonly point out that I can debug anything. I'm also quite good at performance optimization as well as reverse engineering.

The API, programming language, platform or what have you - the tech stack - are all orthogonal to my being one of the very best in the business at debugging.

It's not like no one needs their code debugged, but they don't seem to recognize that until it's way too late.

What they ask for is "How many years of Python experience do you have?" If I say "Less than one" - which is what I actually have - I don't get an offer. Were I able to claim that I had five years experience, I'd have a job.

What I'd like to see, is an interview where someone handed me a buggy Python program, then asked me to fix it.

While that does happen, it is quite rare.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#125

>>> when a new technology is introduced, one is _immediately_ required to know about it before getting a job where that technology will be used. Well Said. I too am in a similar position you have explained. I have a Computer Science college degree (graduated in November) and I have been applying to junior/graduate level jobs that have inflated expectations of what a regular graduate should know (especially technologi…

It's a whole lot easier to get started if you apply for jobs where you'd right in-house apps, for tech support or for system or network administration.

I did all three.

Actually the vast majority of computer software is never released to the public. For example I wrote image processing software for an aerial photography firm. Our "product" was hardcopies of our photos, as well as expert interpretations of what our customers should do, based on what our experts found in the photos.

So my own "customers" were those experts.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#126

>>> when a new technology is introduced, one is _immediately_ required to know about it before getting a job where that technology will be used. Well Said. I too am in a similar position you have explained. I have a Computer Science college degree (graduated in November) and I have been applying to junior/graduate level jobs that have inflated expectations of what a regular graduate should know (especially technologi…

Try looking at it from an employer perspective. The fact that you have a CS degree tells me absolutely nothing about your engineering talent. So hiring you on that basis alone would be gamble, and the odds for that gamble are hysterically bad . They have better odds taking a year's junior developer salary straight to the casino. The number of people claiming to be able to do the job is a multitude of those actually a…

"(Github, App store..."

Quite commonly I am asked for my Github link, but then regarded as unqualified because I don't have one.

That's because you can download my source from my own website.

I have some pretty good reason to believe that many of those who want to know my Github, don't know what Github actually is. That is, not only do they not inspect anyone's Github source, if pressed, they could not explain the difference between a github and a hubcap.

Almost universally, one is required to have at least on App in the App Store or Google Play.

There's no specific requirement as to what the app actually does, whether it works well, whether it's source code makes sense to anyone, whether it gets good reviews - just that one just that that special magic ticket into a mobile development job.

Again, I have good reason to believe that few ever actually so much as look at the app store or google play pages, let alone download, install and run the app.

Have you ever heard someone say "I'd like to work with you so we can find a way that you can drive a brand new car right off the lot. How about I give you a thousand dollar trade-in on your totally thrashed beater?"

I actually had a Toyota saleswoman say just that to me. The reason I was shopping for a new car, is that my thousand dollar trade-in was so unreliable that I was to be fired if I didn't buy a new car Real Soon Now.

Now consider that many recruiters are really good at just that kind of sales.

It's not that they try to sell anything to the candidates. They sell their, uh, "service" to the hiring managers, by somehow convincing them that its worth paying them tens of thousand of dollars in commissions for placing just one coder.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#127
post #29

I'm afraid there's a shortage of good programmers, with proper education in computer science, understanding of how the OS and programs interact, knowing how to use at least one programming language proficiently, fluent in algorithms and data structures - i mean people who know their tools and know what they're doing. Instead we've got lots of excited, half-educated but enthusiastic ctrl-c/ctrl-v specialists, doing wh…

There's a wide spectrum between copy+paste no-hopers and people with a PhD from MIT who know Knuth and SICP backwards. I would rather employ a self-taught developer with some experience and pragmatism born out of real-world experience than I would someone with impeccable academic credentials. Forgive me if I sound touchy but I'm self-taught, my knowledge of algorithms is extremely patchy - but I think I'm a competent…

Damn near the very best computer programmer I have ever met, never even applied to college, let alone attended one.

He used to write storage drivers for HP-UX. Now he's doing embedded systems development for the Keck Telescope on Mauna Kea.

I asked him once how he learned to do all that. He just said that when he was a kid, he liked to tinker with gadgets.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#128

I'm afraid there's a shortage of good programmers, with proper education in computer science, understanding of how the OS and programs interact, knowing how to use at least one programming language proficiently, fluent in algorithms and data structures - i mean people who know their tools and know what they're doing. Instead we've got lots of excited, half-educated but enthusiastic ctrl-c/ctrl-v specialists, doing wh…

My observation is that quite a lot of folks know all about computer science, they might well know how operating systems work, but are clueless as to what happens when they combine the two.

Consider that with certain exceptions, QuickSort is widely regarded as the very best way to sort.

What happens when you sort a memory buffer on a Mac OS X box? Well that depends on a whole lot of things. How big is the buffer? If it's really large, you will cause paging no matter what you do to avoid it.

However there are all kinds of things you can do to keep that paging to a minimum. Not only does that make your code faster, it saves on electrical power and reduces the heat produced by the box.

That kind of thing is the main focus of my work these days - how to make existing code work better on modern computers.

Have a look through the source of, say, glibc, while keeping in mind what code and data memory caches do, paging, context switching with other programs and so on.

I expect that glibc would work really well on a box with no cache at all, and enough memory that it never has to page, and with only one executable running at any one time.

But that no longer applies.

Unfortunately I've never even heard of a school where they teach that kind of stuff.

Many of my colleagues regard me as delusional for asserting that one can save energy by refactoring one's source code, yet they don't seem to clue in to the fact that a computer needs to have a battery or a power cord.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#129
post #72
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a wide spectrum between copy+paste no-hopers and people with a PhD from MIT who know Knuth and SICP backwards. I would rather employ a self-taught developer with some experience and pragmatism born out of real-world experience than I would someone with impeccable academic credentials. Forgive me if I sound touchy but I'm self-taught, my knowledge of algorithms is extremely patchy - but I think I'm a competent…

I think you mean only impeccable academic credentials. Self-taught developers do enter MIT graduate school, including after several years of working in industry. For that matter, Chumby hired Andrew "bunnie" Huang as a freshly minted MIT PhD in EE. Or perhaps you mean that the types of problems you work on, like the vast majority of problems in the world, don't require knowing Knuth and "PCIS", or a PhD education? I…

Among my gripes is that not only does no one care that I've studied Knuth, it is uncommon for those who might hire me, to have even heard of Knuth.

Consider that Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of Harvard to start facebook. Now he has the idea that he knows more about computer programming than I do, despite the fact that I had been in the industry for six years before he was even born.

I'm working on an iOS version of Conway's Game of Life. The vast majority of hiring managers I demonstrate my app to, not only have never heard of Conway's Life, they don't have a clue about cellular automata - nor do they see the point of my app.

I find that hard to understand, as Conway's Life is a widely studied artificial intelligence research tool.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm afraid there's a shortage of good programmers, with proper education in computer science, understanding of how the OS and programs interact, knowing how to use at least one programming language proficiently, fluent in algorithms and data structures Well, I never geeked out about algorithms and data structures irrespective of application domain, but hey, what are you looking for?

Well, what did you geek about then? Programming is all about algorithms and data structures, irrespective of application domain.

"Don't tell the user to click the OK button. Tell the user to click the OK button until it turns black." -- David Courtney Johnson.

All too commonly, the work I'm actually paid to do is to make a button turn black when someone clicks on it.

That might actually be interesting, were it not for the fact that the only way to make that button turn black, is to allocate ten megabytes of objects, then run a few hundred thousand lines of code, at which point a hardware GPU writes zeros all over a memory buffer.

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