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No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

polygon.com

121–130 of 375 posts

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#121
post #100

> We live in a society that’s sexist in ways it doesn’t understand. One of the consequences is that men are extremely sensitive to being criticized by women. I think it threatens them in a very primal way, and male privilege makes them feel free to lash out. I don't mean to "Not all men" this, but I wish we would stop treating behavior like this as a normal part of the male psyche. It's not. It's seriously disturbed.…

That kid in Texas was then turned out in jail. What has happened to him is horrific.

Yeah, I'm not supporting that case at all. I think given the context it was perfectly clear that he was not making a serious threat.

It's stupid that in these cases where the context is a LOT more ambiguous that absolutely nothing can be done about it. That energy should be redirected to where it could do some good.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#122
We need to fix this. Whenever someone feels like they are in a position of power, things like this happen. This power can come from anonymity (eg: the internet), it can come from a position of authority (boss), or sometimes it can come from just being dominated by an in-group with a much smaller out-group.

What's happening here seems like a mix of the power of anonymity on the internet mixed with the fact that women are underrepresented in game development. The former lets people harass, taunt, and threaten with many times very few consequences, whereas the latter leads to favoritism to other members of the in-group, and derogation of the out-group.

So what can we do? Unfortunately, the issues are larger than me to grasp. But since we are on Hacker News, I'll give a few technological solutions I've taken a few minutes to come up with that may help:

1. We have spam filters right now on email -- what if those filters also watched for hate words? If it met a certain threshold, the message would not be shown in the main article. We could mark email/comments as "hateful", and when it reached a certain threshold that comment would be hashed and added to a repository that could be checked against for future comments. People would try to get around it like they do spam filters (I H.A.T.E Y.O.U., etc), but with enough training I feel a good deal could be filtered out.

2. HR departments should be moved to unbiased third party services. I feel many employees are afraid to report discrimination or harassment because many times their HR coordinator knows the people involved. If you move it to an unbiased third party, you can report pseudo-anonymously (they will know who reported, but won't tell the company until after they have confirmed or need to follow up with the company) without the worry that the third party is biased towards a specific party.

There needs to be a lot more thought put into how we can fix this than the few minutes I spent above, but it might be a good first step.

EDIT: modified for brevity's sake. (I'll replace with the original again if people want to read it)

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#124
post #71
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What hypocrisies? There are none. You are imagining those. When there is something you cannot understand it’s proper to address that with “Men just don’t …” That’s ok. It’s no claim that all men act disgustingly, it’s only a claim that men don’t understand. That’s also completely unrelated to the “What can you – as a man – do to help?” part. I mean, where is the connection there. You are saying very confusing things.

Hypocrisy is saying men should not tell women how to feel, and then following that up with an entire article telling men how to feel and behave. Pretty sure I didn't imagine that.

I don’t think you quite understood what that article was talking about … you seem quite confused. I’m sorry.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#125

I read articles like this, and I think to myself, "Damn, I'm glad I'm not one of those guys." Then every time I see a photo of Marissa Mayer, I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought instead of something more equal like, "Damn, she's accomplished and brilliant" like I do when I see a photo of Robert Downey Jr or Idris Elba or Benedict Cumberbatch. But no, if it's a woman, my…

You can't suppress feelings of attraction but you can control how those feelings influence general perception of that person. It's about realizing that that there is by no necessity correlation between features of a person. It is human to eagerly seek correlations that might not be there.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#126
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why I'm being downvoted for wishing for an environment where people wouldn't be able to send rape/death threats anonymously and responding to the comment (now deleted) that defended such threats as free speech.

It's probably because there are also plenty of excellent reasons to have anonymity as an option online.

Oh, I absolutely agree there are. Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough: these types of harassment makes me willing to forgo the legitimate opportunities for anonymity, just to be able to be able to have an environment where such harassment is minimized and traceable when it does happen.

It might seem extreme, but when you've been on the receiving end of numerous vile messages a day, including rape/death threats, discovery of your home address and gems like "Women are the niggers of gender ... If you killed yourself, I wouldn’t even fuck the corpse" (as referenced in article), non-anonymity may seem appealing.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#127
Despite the actual point of this article, I'm really happy to see the frequency of posts from many writers at Polygon/The Verge about sexism and related issued in the gaming industry and game development. I'd guess and say they publish at least one or two articles on the topic per week, and all of them are fantastic. To whomever at Polygon/The Verge that decided to go on this editorial route, thousands of kudos.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#128

I always find it very strange that we don't apply spam filters and recent machine learning techniques to the problem of filtering comments. If I looked at my email unfiltered, I'd think one in three of the people sending me messages in the past day were unusually concerned about the state of my penis. From a not-adding-anything-to-the-discussion perspective, dead baby pictures and random threats of rape or acts of vi…

Maybe there's some value there, but my experience is that you can rarely solve a "people" problem with a purely technical solution.

Also, as a society, I'd like to think we can do better than "sorry about the rape/murder threats, we'll try to hide most of them from you"

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#129
>One of the consequences is that men are extremely sensitive to being criticized by women

What the fuck? Only the weakest and most cowardly men negatively react to criticism from women (and other men).

If someone is objectively or logically criticizing you, then they're doing you a huge favor. Thank them, regardless of their gender.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps hire fewer employees right out of college for crap salaries, and foster an environment where senior employees with families can work? There is simply very little diversity in applicants who apply for videogame jobs, and if your entire employee base is comprised solely of these applicants, it's going to become an echo chamber. The people who would not stand for this type of behavior are typically not those who…

That is off-topic. That cliche about the game industry is irrelevant to this question. These verbal attacks are from outside the work environment, and have no awareness of the composition of the company. And these attacks do happen to mature teams and people, I've seen it.

> That is off-topic. That cliche about the game industry is irrelevant to this question.

I disagree. A team's composition is the only thing that matters when it comes to minimizing this sort of behavior towards co-workers (whether in or outside work). And a team which is comprised of people who have not experienced a professional work environment can not be expected to be professional. It's the same reason we don't expect interns to be immediately familiar with the reality of programming in a business; they have no context of business reality.

I honestly believe that it's fair to say that vast majority of people will act poorly, when the action has no (or few) repercussions; it's why we have easily-pickable locks on our houses, to deter the 98% of people who would steal small items if there were no barriers or consequences.

Diversity and professionalism are the locks to deter people from behaving poorly in a work environment. Of course, this leaves the small minority who would act poorly regardless of the repercussions, their behavior can only be resolved through rules and contracts regardless of the team size or composition. The most you can ever hope to do is prevent the majority of attacks, and penalize the minority appropriately.

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