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No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

polygon.com

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Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#91

Post by worldsayshi »

Gracana wrote: post #74
hnnewguy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought It's pretty much my first thought when I see any woman (and some men). I can't help it, it's the product of us being animals. Who cares. I don't feel guilty, and certainly don't hate myself for it. > I hope I don't have a daughter. Oh brother...

Yeah, the problem is not that having those feelings, it's acting entitled to force those desires onto other people (in whatever form that may take) that's the issue.

Yes, entitlement is certainly a key word here.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#92

Post by [deleted] »

frio wrote: post #47
coldtea wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "its banter, get over it. Men deal with it all the time". Just shows how deep the problem goes I guess. Why, isn't it true? I mean, if one's going to argue one is much worse than the other, then some citation is needed. Empirically, men don't (usually) get rape threats. But they do get death threats. And they don't usually get sexual comments on their looks. But they do get comments that they're "fat", "dorky", "id…

> "Women are the niggers of gender," the email said. "If you killed yourself, I wouldn’t even fuck the corpse." That's the first line of the article. That's banter? That's equivalent to being "fat" or "dorky"?

[deleted]

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#93

Post by NotAtWork »

Jemaclus wrote: post #31

I read articles like this, and I think to myself, "Damn, I'm glad I'm not one of those guys." Then every time I see a photo of Marissa Mayer, I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought instead of something more equal like, "Damn, she's accomplished and brilliant" like I do when I see a photo of Robert Downey Jr or Idris Elba or Benedict Cumberbatch. But no, if it's a woman, my…

> Then every time I see a photo of Marissa Mayer, I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought instead of something more equal like, "Damn, she's accomplished and brilliant" like I do when I see a photo of Robert Downey Jr or Idris Elba or Benedict Cumberbatch.

My first thought about Robert Downey Jr is usually something about his hair or attire.

We're primed to study the physical appearance of others when we see them. I don't see any reason that it's bad to notice that someone is attractive, has a funny haircut, etc.

The key point is that it's just a thing, and to move on to more important things (such as they're accomplished, intelligent, etc) rather than dwelling on physical ones.

Insisting you not see that she's attractive seems as weird to me as just focusing on her being attractive.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#94

Post by tomp »

icebraining wrote: post #61
coldtea wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article notes this. Women shouldn't be expected to distance themselves from a very real threat of physical violence, which men simply don't face to anything close to the same degree. Mean deal with threats of physical violence all the time. Including actual attacks, which is far more common between men. They just don't deal with rape threats/attacks.

I don't. Where in the software development industry do men deal with threats of physical violence "all the time"? On average, men may deal with more attacks, but that's comparing people in prison with game developers, which is fallacious, to say the least.

> but that's comparing people in prison

Not really. Most of my male friends, including myself, have been assaulted (beaten-up) before turning 21 - some in broad daylight, in the city centre, or with people around them. Most, if not all, of the assailants weren't punished (or even reported - it's obvious the police can't really do anything about it).

I don't have any similar statistics about my female friends. If they were raped, many would probably not share that fact as willingly as my male friends did. Still, I wishfully believe that not all of them have been raped/assaulted.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#95

Post by Iftheshoefits »

eli wrote: post #59
Iftheshoefits wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it happens through various mediums gaming companies control, such as in-game communication, forums, and the like. Companies can, and should, take vigorous legal action against customers who issue such threats. It would be a good start.

No offense, but did you read the article? It's about women who are harassed for working in the game industry, not playing games. I agree with you, though, that game companies should generally take a hard line on abusive in-game behavior.

No offense, but I think you misread my comment, which did not specifically single out women gamers. Women who work at game companies receive threats through the channels I mentioned with some frequency, because they have access to them.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#96

Post by hnnewguy »

glibgil wrote: post #10
spyglass wrote: post #7

It's taunting, and a natural part of competition. Men taunt each other just as much, if not more. Get over it. If you can't get over it, don't play with people you don't know.

You should stop posting here because you have a small dick. Am I doing it right?

>Am I doing it right?

Maybe. But I couldn't care less what some anonymous dude on the internet thinks about my penis. Won't even skip a beat.

Am I doing it wrong?

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#97

Post by briantakita »

arrrg wrote: post #29
jarin wrote: post #20

I would argue that men don't get rape threats because most men don't see rape as a realistic threat to themselves. Instead, we have our masculinity, loyalty, abilities, work ethic, and/or integrity attacked, because those are the things that cut us to the core. I'm not saying that women don't care about those things, I'm just saying that when someone is trying to be a dick they're going to go after the lowest hanging…

I do see women’s femininity (or lack of masculinity, actually!), loyalty, especially abilities, work ethic and/or integrity attacked all the time. I don’t really understand why you are under the impression that doesn’t happen to women. The objectification and threats of (sexual) violence happen in addition to that. Again, you seem to argue that there is some kind of balance in harassment and both men and women receiv…

Disclaimer: I'm male & this is my opinion.

All things being equal (content, credentials of speaker, etc), a woman speaking tends to get more attention than a male. People are naturally more attracted to the feminine than the masculine.

Exuding feminine energy draws people in. This expression may or may not be conscious. It's at least partially conscious though. It often works to that person's advantage to look good.

People are going to react to this feminine energy who also has something to say. I understand that it's not fair to emphasize the feminine, however we are driven more by emotions than by rational thought (even "rational" thought tends to be driven by emotion).

Another angle is harassment toward men does happen and is simply not talked about, laughed off, and downplayed. It's not useful to keep score and categorize who harassment happens to. If you are a victim of harassment, does it matter that you fall within a majority or minority of the demographics?

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#98

Post by jarin »

Geekette wrote: post #86
Geekette wrote: post #41

These are the sorts of issues that make one wish anonymity online was impossible or always traceable. The cowardice that lives in people is astounding. For those muttering the free speech line: freedom of speech ≠ freedom of consequences.

Not sure why I'm being downvoted for wishing for an environment where people wouldn't be able to send rape/death threats anonymously and responding to the comment (now deleted) that defended such threats as free speech.

It's probably because there are also plenty of excellent reasons to have anonymity as an option online.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#99

Post by sp332 »

cheez wrote: post #69
sp332 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She's not threatened because she's a writer, she's threatened because some people in the community are abusive and law enforcement hasn't stepped up and done its job.

She's a target of the threats because she's a public writer. It's not good and obviously it's not her fault, but sometimes it feels like a woman-in-tech's workday must go something like this according to the articles I see: 7am: coffee 8am: get to work 9am: rape threat from coworker #1 10am: standup meeting 11am: death threat from coworker #2

Those abusers will target any woman they can find. If a woman is not getting abuse from some of them it's only because they haven't found her yet.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#100

Post by imgabe »

> We live in a society that’s sexist in ways it doesn’t understand. One of the consequences is that men are extremely sensitive to being criticized by women. I think it threatens them in a very primal way, and male privilege makes them feel free to lash out.

I don't mean to "Not all men" this, but I wish we would stop treating behavior like this as a normal part of the male psyche. It's not. It's seriously disturbed. It's an unfortunate consequence of the Internet and any area where you have a large audience that a small active segment is going to produce a large impression.

Yes, maybe your friend and even most men feel differently when a woman criticizes them than when a man does. No it is absolutely NOT a normal, male response to start making rape and death threats because of it.

I think these responses are a combination of seriously disturbed individuals and literal or mental children who haven't yet fully internalized that there are real live human beings on the other end of the keyboard and are trying to be shocking.

I think making a few examples would deter the idiots who think this is amusing. I mean, that one kid in Texas made an offhand, sarcastic comment about shooting up a school and got himself arrested within a couple of days. It would be nice to see police take other threats as seriously.

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