Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

openttd.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 265 posts

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#121

Post by polothesecond »

nazgulsenpai wrote: post #47
lstodd wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open internet is dead only to those that don't take the effort to discover. Otherwise it's still as open as it always was. Since there was an internet to speak of, there always were and still are vast amounts of people unaware of stuff that exists, limited by no "platforms" but only by their own lack of desire.

I use a similar argument to those who say that gaming is dead. Sure, if you're waiting for $AAA_DEVELOPER to change, it's probably dead, but you don't even have to look that far to find amazing games everywhere in indie and AA.

Sadly indie developers are only just starting get into my preferred genre. I am excited to see how a number of upcoming titles turn out, but for the time I’m stuck waiting for $AAA_DEVELOPER to change.

I’ve had half the mind to just try my own hand at game dev again.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#122

Post by gmueckl »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #103
WarcrimeActual wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do own it. Any court would likely agree that what OpenTTD does is copy an IP they own. And they'd have the right to C&D it.

Reverse engineering for compatibility, and implementation of a compatible system (as long as you don't copy the original) are not just legal, they're explicitly legally protected in many jurisdictions. You'll get in serious trouble if you copy the original, but there is specific case law supporting things like emulators. See, for instance, Sony v Connectix and Sega v Accolade.

But OpenTTD is explicitly a faithful copy of the original. It replicates the original product in appearance and behavior and is open about it. If you were to dig into source code history, mailing list archives, chat logs etc. I'm certain that you could find a lot of evidence to support this position.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#123

Post by Lammy »

Aurornis wrote: post #86
Lammy wrote: post #3

> a compromise would be needed to balance Atari’s commercial interests (which of course they are entitled to pursue as the rights holder) No, fuck 'em. They had nothing to do with developing the game, and in a sane copyright structure a thirty-year-old work would be public domain by now.

> They had nothing to do with developing the game OpenTTD started as an effort to translate the original game’s assembly into higher level code. It was not a clean room implementation. The original code was used as a base.

Who gives a shit? It's from 1995 and nu-Atari had nothing to do with it.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#124

Post by hrmtst93837 »

paxys wrote: post #13
Closi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atari own all the IP and copyright. While OpenTTD is open source, it's basis is really that the original game was reverse-engineered, originally using the original assets, and then rebuilt. Also all the map data etc is owned by Atari, so you need to have a 'genuine' copy to access all the levels etc.

What copyright? OpenTTD doesn't copy any code or assets from the original game. It is a ground-up rewrite. There is no copyright violation.

[flagged]

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#125

Post by [deleted] »

ndiddy wrote: post #116
singpolyma3 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"no responsibility" but they could have chosen not to intentionally hurt them

Imagine if you were Atari. You've bought the rights to Transport Tycoon Deluxe from Chris Sawyer and want to sell the game up on Steam. Then you see OpenTTD (the exact same game except better in every way) also on Steam for free. What do you do?

[deleted]

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#126

Post by bombcar »

aeturnum wrote: post #70

I don't have much to add except to say that I think this is a stand-out example of how companies and preservationists should work together and not against each other. The childish folks who are upset about this aren't familiar with the realties of either open source games perseveration nor the realities of being an IP holder. This is as close as we have gotten to the Good Place. I wish Atari luck on the re-release an…

I think it's interesting to look at your opinion (not you particularly, but everyone) and see if it would have been different if instead of "Atari" it was "Chris Sawyer".

If it would have been, then there's probably an inconsistency somewhere.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#127

Post by JoshTriplett »

gmueckl wrote: post #122
JoshTriplett wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reverse engineering for compatibility, and implementation of a compatible system (as long as you don't copy the original) are not just legal, they're explicitly legally protected in many jurisdictions. You'll get in serious trouble if you copy the original, but there is specific case law supporting things like emulators. See, for instance, Sony v Connectix and Sega v Accolade.

But OpenTTD is explicitly a faithful copy of the original. It replicates the original product in appearance and behavior and is open about it. If you were to dig into source code history, mailing list archives, chat logs etc. I'm certain that you could find a lot of evidence to support this position.

"Behavior" isn't copyrightable; it explicitly isn't, in fact.

To what extent did they copy "appearance" other than supporting the use of the original assets?

It is certainly possible that they didn't scrupulously maintain clean hands, but I wouldn't automatically assume that.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#128

Post by zer00eyz »

whstl wrote: post #66
starkparker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

probably a little telling that you don't seem to know the name of the sriracha brand you're referring to that does zero-dollar advertising

Does it matter? People just look for the bottle with a rooster anyway.

Ahh the old days before Huy Fong lost the plot.

My introduction to their Sriracha was in 1994, when the Puerto Rican cook at the Italian restaurant I worked at sent me to Stop and Shop for the "rooster".

Till hosing their relationship with Underwood Ranch (their sole provider of chili's) this was the only product in the marketplace (much like ketchup was always Heinz for a time). Absolute market dominance wrecked over not honoring your handshake deal with your ONLY supplier.

The latest batches by them are green, and no one wants them. The underwood version of the product is taking over --- it has a giant dragon on the bottle now, and what I look for now rather than the rooster.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#129

Post by designerarvid »

orphea wrote: post #39
designerarvid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reproducing someone’s intellectual property and publishing it is exactly what constitutes a copyright violation. You can retype someone’s book with your keyboard, it’s still not yours.

Reproducing is absolutely not a copyright violation. Otherwise emulators would have no legal option to exist.

That is a question about which copyrights are enforced. Different question.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#130

Post by AndrewDucker »

Lammy wrote: post #123
Aurornis wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They had nothing to do with developing the game OpenTTD started as an effort to translate the original game’s assembly into higher level code. It was not a clean room implementation. The original code was used as a base.

Who gives a shit? It's from 1995 and nu-Atari had nothing to do with it.

Copyright from 1995 has not expired.
Post reply on HN