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Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

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Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#121

Post by potato3732842 »

waste_monk wrote: post #70
oakstendheim wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish these options would become more common, maybe even similar to the whole ecosystem around old American muscle cars. Pick and choose a (mostly) standardized drive train, standardized battery packs of different capacities and and your electronics to connect everything together.

I thought the issue is more the batteries and weight distribution. That is, EVs usually have the batteries along the length of the chassis to spread the load out, which is not practical to retrofit onto an ICE car. And if you fill the engine bay on an ICE car with battery packs during the conversion, the weight distribution will be extremely uneven and cause trouble with the suspension and related components, poor ha…

>I thought the issue is more the batteries and weight distribution

That's something spewed by people who don't know enough about cars to know they're chasing the wrong criteria. Battery placement is like a 2nd/3rd/4th order problem. You could fit a very respectably battery in the space where the fuel tank and exhaust go and if not there then the floor might just have to get a couple inches taller in the rear row. Not a big deal. Making battery cases to fit those locations is hard, but also not crazy. Just scan it like Weathertech and Uhaul do for mats and hitches.

The first order thing that's keeping all this from happening is that there's no money in it after all the expensive re-engineering and low volume manufacturing you'd need to do to integrate it into the vehicles you want to support.

This is why the industry is kind of stalled at the "supporting DIYers" level. It just don't work without free labor doing the vehicle specific bits.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#122

Post by LightBug1 »

bradley13 wrote: post #91

I would like to see some legal and regulatory steps. When we purchased our Ioniq, there was no agreement for data sharing, etc. - we have basically a cash register receipt, nothing more. Whenever there is a major update, an insanely long T&A appears on the screen. No one is going to read it. The only options are "accept" or clicking it away. If you click it away, it comes back the next day. It cannot possibly be lega…

Thanks for the heads-up ... I've been drooling over an ioniq 5 (ideally N) for quite some time as an excellent alternative to the Douche-la.

But this kind of thing really puts me off ...

I've been maintaining a 2005 Toyota and a 1969 Vw Beetle ... no worries about fucking T&C's or T&A's ... looks like I'll continue the maintenance regime, which I kind of enjoy anyway.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#123

Post by ToucanLoucan »

echoangle wrote: post #108
mook wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CarPlay Ultra sounds like it's extending it further? That is, it's still essentially VNC† with some data fed from the car and rendered by the phone, but now with multi-monitor support. † it's more complicated than that, but still a dumb framebuffer.

I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators? I thought the main image would be rendered on the car using local data and only the entertainment stuff is transferred from the phone. And also, how would you drive your car withou…

> I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators?

I have some understanding of this being someone who has installed way too many aftermarket head units, and as best I can tell, all the rendering indeed occurs on the phone. The CarPlay experience is virtually identical across all the units I've tested on, from my stock '18 Corvette unit, through 4 or 5 ones I've shuffled through in my F-150, and through 2 or 3 through my Chrysler 300. Apart from display size and density, there is no difference at all in all these CarPlay units. They function identically.

The phone also gets notably warm even just playing music which is part of why I strongly suspect all of that is phone-side activity at play with the dash just providing a resolution/density combo and touch inputs.

> Would they implement an entire backup dashboard for this?

Correct, if my research is to be believed. There's a stock OEM OS look to everything in line with each brand's visual designs, which is then swapped out to whatever degree they feel like exposing to CarPlay Ultra, at which point it's reskinned in Apple's look.

I don't own any vehicles new enough for this, but it's pretty cool if it works. That said I'm less a fan of everything being a display. For gauges and such I do prefer physical gauges.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#124

Post by nyarlathotep_ »

farmdve wrote: post #64
justforfunhere wrote: post #21

I know of some modern vehicles that will not start at all if you go about removing the telematics unit. I am not sure how long will it take before you will not be able to buy a vehicle at all without having to consent to being monitored remotely 24x7, but it will happen sooner than later. And this coming from a developing country. Pretty sure it is much worse in the developed world. I guess the market for second hand…

I am actually fascinated by car electronics. I had heavily modified the software on mine, but it was easier than modern stuff, no encryption of the code, and even the checksum code only triggered a DTC with no consequences. The only module that was encrypted was the main module, but it if you knew the security PIN you could do what you wanted. It was determined by people that if you observed the jitter of the CAN lin…

> I had heavily modified the software on mine, but it was easier than modern stuff, no encryption of the code, and even the checksum code only triggered a DTC with no consequences.

What's the vintage of the vehicle? When I was in the 'car enthusiast' phase of my life ECU "reflash/remaps/tunes" were very popular and still happen on more 'modern' cars.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#125

Post by potato3732842 »

bestham wrote: post #38
flomo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This problem solved itself on my car because it only has a 3G modem.

On an adjacent theme there has been a large debate in Sweden if a car that has mandated automatic eCall over 2G or 3G is faulty and thus not roadworthy if the 2G and 3G networks are turned off. The eCall feature was introduced broadly in 2018. It still uses modem sounds over a voice phone call to relay car emergency status and position. New solutions for packet only networks (4g and 5G) have been standardised but are…

There's, broadly speaking, two ways this can go.

The first way this can go is that the people with a stake in selling cars (dealers, OEMs, etc) get their lobbyists leaning on the politicians and get it rammed through.

The second is that the issue gets delayed long enough that the number of older vehicles it applies to goes down out of attrition and it's not worth fighting over.

Considering the cultural disposition of the nordics when it comes to matters like this I expect the first option to be chosen. There will enough people hand wringing about safety and whatnot to provide the political lubricant to ensure the first outcome.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#126

Post by alchemist1e9 »

LightBug1 wrote: post #122
bradley13 wrote: post #91

I would like to see some legal and regulatory steps. When we purchased our Ioniq, there was no agreement for data sharing, etc. - we have basically a cash register receipt, nothing more. Whenever there is a major update, an insanely long T&A appears on the screen. No one is going to read it. The only options are "accept" or clicking it away. If you click it away, it comes back the next day. It cannot possibly be lega…

Thanks for the heads-up ... I've been drooling over an ioniq 5 (ideally N) for quite some time as an excellent alternative to the Douche-la. But this kind of thing really puts me off ... I've been maintaining a 2005 Toyota and a 1969 Vw Beetle ... no worries about fucking T&C's or T&A's ... looks like I'll continue the maintenance regime, which I kind of enjoy anyway.

Nissan Leafs are I think the most DIY friendly EVs, certainly 1st generation, and also 2nd, but 3rd generation that is coming soon … not so much. Anyway 1st and 2nd can definitely be completely offline and there are significant online communities of tinkerers and even open source tools to interact with them.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#127

Post by myself248 »

justforfunhere wrote: post #21

I know of some modern vehicles that will not start at all if you go about removing the telematics unit. I am not sure how long will it take before you will not be able to buy a vehicle at all without having to consent to being monitored remotely 24x7, but it will happen sooner than later. And this coming from a developing country. Pretty sure it is much worse in the developed world. I guess the market for second hand…

If you're thinking of OnStar, it's because removing the module breaks the MOST ring. Bypass the ring around the missing module and you'll get some DTCs but everything mostly works again.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#128

Post by LJGNYC »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #123
echoangle wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators? I thought the main image would be rendered on the car using local data and only the entertainment stuff is transferred from the phone. And also, how would you drive your car withou…

> I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators? I have some understanding of this being someone who has installed way too many aftermarket head units, and as best I can tell, all the rendering indeed occurs on the phone. The C…

Do you have any recommendations on vendors for aftermarket CarPlay?

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#130

Post by exabrial »

Terr_ wrote: post #6
zdw wrote: post #2

I'm fearing the day when my quite old ICE car dies and I end up in a situation where the best option is a newer car that is a computer on wheels running software that I know will stop getting updates very quickly. Of all the new cars ideas I've seen recently, only the Slate mini-truck seems to be taking a minimalist approach, with no fancy head unit or navigation system.

I'm hopeful that stuff like Android Auto or Apple CarPlay will continue moving some of the risky obsolete-able complexity away of the giant expensive machine I plan to keep for over a decade (the car) and into smaller easier-to-replace ones (my smartphone.) A quick outline for those who haven't used them: The car's head-display becomes mostly-controlled by your phone, which is what supplies any navigation, music, pod…

This was vehicles made in 2018.

I’m trying to keep mine alive as long as possible.

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