Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 200 posts

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#121

Post by wink »

bgdam wrote: post #101
wink wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then there's the wait time for everything. Appointment for visa extension: 8 months. Driving license conversion: 1 year. German exam: 5 months. What, you want the results for your exam also? Better wait another year then. Honestly Germany is a shit show, and if I hadn't already invested so much time, money and energy into this god forsaken country, I'd be out of here in a heartbeat. I don't want to downplay any…

> I don't want to downplay any of this and I mostly agree with your points, but as a German the only "related" things I have to do is renew my ID and passport every 10 years and I've never had to wait such a long time (I think we're due to a change in our driving licenses, but that's one time, and I've not touched mine since I got it over 20 years ago). Exactly. This is precisely my point. Germans don't realize that…

Well, you originally put this as your talking point, more of a general rant how everything sucks, and then we should assume that your pain points with immigration are the main point.

I just found https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/28347/umfrage... - which looks like a big jump (e.g. comparing to France https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/461789/umfrag... )

In a perfect world I'd assume this would be fixed slowly as this seems to be a recent trend, but I'm not hopeful.

Also I'm pretty sure there's currently no way to vote in any election that would make any process more digital and faster and less bureaucratic, so while that doesn't help you, you're not missing anything here. (Yes, the FDP and Lindner especially have ran their campaign on some pipe dreams but my personal opinion can be summed up with: lol.)

Fixing this needs a general shift of thinking first, then the stuff that is only relevant to 3% of the population (also maybe in their first few years, so even less?) will follow.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#122

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

bgdam wrote: post #98
2-718-281-828 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sounds like you miss your servants which happen to be a little too expensive for you here ... and you even have to treat them respectful. what a bummer

Way to assume. I love how literally everyone who criticizes Germany about being slow and inefficient is assumed to come from a place of privilege. If I missed by "servants" I'd be complaining about separating my garbage and having to make multiple trips to the recyclehof, not about bureaucracy sucking the life out of people.

india is itself infamous for escalating bureaucracy.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#123

Post by the_common_man »

junon wrote: post #56
bgdam wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anmeldung is one very small, very simple thing. Have you been to your Ausländerbehörde yet?

Yes, multiple times. The first time was long and annoying because I didn't know about the visa extension laws. The other times were easy, despite being nerveracking.

How did you even get appointments? It's impossible to get appointments at Auslandbehörde

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#124

Post by dhruvrajvanshi »

bgdam wrote: post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

I'm also an Indian guy working in Germany paying "obnoxiously high taxes", and my experience has been quite different.

> The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime

- Easy access to parks

- Good public transport (I used to live in Delhi, and it has an okay metro connectivity, but nowhere close to what even smaller German cities have).

- Traffic. I liked living in India, but holy shit, the traffic is the worst.

- It's a whole lot quieter which I really care about. I can hear birds chirping right now very close to Berlin's city center.

- Lots of activities to do if you're young.

- I know people complain about beauraucracy here, but I would be very surprised if India handles incoming migrant cases really smoothly either.

> But the worst part of all this is - the vast majority of Germans think this is all acceptable and okay. If you go to the /r/germany or /r/de subreddits, any thread with genuine complaints will be drowned in responses from native Germans who foolishly believe that Germany is a great country to live in because they either don't have these problems, or they know how to work the system and get their results.

Maybe it wasn't what you said, but how you said it. I'm judging based on your tone in this post. If you're this rude to people, expect them to dismiss your opinion even if you're making valid points.

It's not only rosy for me either.

- Cellphone coverage and mobile data is strangely expensive here for reasons I don't understand.

- Finding appartments is really difficult. But it's a problem that all big cities in Europe face. I wish some of my taxes would go towards making affordable mass housing.

- It's hard to learn a new language as an adult (not really the fault of Germans). You definitely run into German fairly often, websites, talking to cashiers, etc.

P.S. Obnoxiously high is a stretch. Yes, in India your taxes max out at 30% percent (roughly), which isn't nothing but you don't get much value out of it. In Germany, it maxes out at 45% but it pays for good quality education for everyone.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#125

Post by thecopy »

mhroth wrote: post #48
danwee wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise, you are mostly just coming for economic reasons, and countries don't need that. You sure about that? For example, there's nothing better for a country like Germany to have an inmigrant who has: - got a bacherlo/masters degree in a different country other than Germany - has a job in a German company and earns well above the average German citizen - pays tons of taxes - is relatively young (between 20 and…

All true. But they don't need people showing up just to gripe and complain.

But they are not just griping and complaining. They are also working, contributing to the culture, and paying taxes. They are a part of the society, and their perspective should not be ignored, disrespected and ridiculed like it is by so many in this thread.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#126

Post by mertbio »

the_common_man wrote: post #6

> Germany has liberalised its immigration rules, but the visa process is still glacial and the system favours refugees over professionals who might want to settle in the country. A big issue for professionals to move is they have to learn German.

This is not true. You don't have to learn German if you can find a company that uses English for their day-to-day work. There are a lot of them.

Also, as a professional, in the big cities like Berlin and Hamburg, there is a different immigration centre and they process your paperwork way faster.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#127

Post by wink »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #100
wink wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, this does not match my experience (but it's been a while). I'm not saying it's been great but maybe it's because I didn't file a single business trip or hotel stay. FWIW I also have to file those now as you described as an employee, so while it's not helping that is not unique to running a business :P

You have to file those as an employee just because your employer has to do the same beauraucracy. Sounds in the end you stopped doing business :P There is tons of examples where a solo-enterpreneur is drowned in these regulations (corporate car or even e-bike (!), calculation of privateley used square meter space in the homeoffice, separation of heating cost for your home office etc.). Don't even get me started about…

I think you hit the nail on the head. "Solo person with a laptop" (to exaggerate) has to jump through all the hoops a "proper company" has to do (and shouldn't) - but a proper company with a low amount of people is not much more work. Because that's what I meant, and it didn't feel overly bureaucratic to me.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#128

Post by jeroenvlek »

PurpleRamen wrote: post #109
jeroenvlek wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect because of the also mentioned "own goal" of eliminating nuclear power despite not having green alternatives.

Germany has more than enough alternatives for nuclear power. The situation would have been even better if not for some brain farts sabotaging the movement to alternatives for various reasons. The big problem is that has Germany has big dependencies on coal, gas and gasoline, for industry, heating, and cars. Nuclear power can't replace this at all. Which is why Germany is shifting around usages and started investing b…

Yes, but they could have kept nuclear until the reactors were end of life to have more time for the transition.

Instead, they frantically closed them and now coal consumption increased. Case in point: Lützerath.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#129

Post by Semaphor »

bgdam wrote: post #93
Semaphor wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love people like you, move right towards insulting others. Maybe that’s why you have those issues. Not even going to bother arguing with people like you.

Sorry where was the insulting? You responded saying you won't fight against things that don't personally affect you, and I pointed out how things you don't think personally affect you will eventually affect you.

> But yes, by all means be typisch Deutsch and stick your head in the sand. Let's see how that helps when the car manufacturing industry is long gone and Germany is the Greece of the 2030s.

You are right, I also forget adding strawmen.

> You responded saying you won't fight against things that don't personally affect you

Didn’t say that either, but that fits with my image of you.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#130

Post by jeroenvlek »

the_common_man wrote: post #113
jeroenvlek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree in principle, but younger people do speak English a lot better and in cities like Berlin or Hamburg it's an even lower barrier.

These are not the people you meet in public sector and services

True, but I don't think the Kartoffelparty phenomenon will ever fully disappear ;)
Post reply on HN