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Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

economist.com

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Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#71
post #31

> a series of reforms in the early 2000s ushered in a golden age Who did the reforms? -- Cabinet Schröder. Who did nothing since then? -- Cabinet Merkel.

Never touch a running system.

Who rolled back many of the things Schröder implemented? -- Cabinet Scholz

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#72
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not true. i know lots of people who came here to work and none of them speaks german beyond mere basics if at all. as a matter of fact all of them explain that this is because you get by well on english.

As a German with an expat partner, I'd say this depends very much. If you're working for consumer facing startups - sure. There's tons of those in Berlin and plenty in the other big cities (Germany is quite decentral). But if you want to settle a bit on the outskirts of even the big cities, it is a lot easier to understand at least some. I'd say 50% of the people we randomly interact with can hold a conversation in E…

there is no non english speaking country in the world where you could expect that to be easier.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#73

> Added to this are worsening geopolitics, the difficulty of eliminating carbon emissions and the travails of an ageing population. Worsening geopolitics and an ageing population are more immideate problem compared to the inability to eliminate (not reduce) carbon emissions. Or am I missing something? Can someone explain to me why ”eliminating carbon emissions” was sandwiched between the other two issues?

Carbon emissions are also long-term plans. When you open a coal mine (which they do) or plan for increasing nuclear power, you have to plan decades in advance, which is why we should have started all this yesterday

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#74
post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

> If I paid the same amount in insurance in India, I'd have a helicopter flown out every time I stubbed my toe. You are free to go private if you earn more than 60k a year and you get all the helicopters and 3-d printed tooth fillings. The only problem is that you can get back to public only if you get fired. > Germans who foolishly believe that Germany is a great country to live It's not Germans who foolishly believ…

> I strongly advise anyone who moves to Germany to start private pension scheme immediately because in 30 years there will be no pension in Germany, most likely.

But there is not way out of the government mandated pension unless you become self-employed. So you do have to pay into the giant ponzi scheme, while also building your own private funds.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#75
post #65
post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

That is just your experience. You say as if things in India are all bed of roses. No major city in India (forget small towns) can boast of breathable air, manageable traffic, potable water from the tap or 24 hours of electricity. Women's safety - lol. Finding a place where there is a clean lake or some non-polluted piece of nature - forget that in North India. Not to mention as a minority, who knows when you can be l…

> People come here, reek of privilege, miss their life in India where they had 3 servants for everything and also forget that if they have to go to any government office in India they have to pay bribes.

Unfortunately these are the exact people that Germany wants moving into their country - because they're the one's who pay the high taxes. Do you think Germany is throwing open their doors for the underprivileged folk of the developing world? Unless you're a refugee from a war torn land, they are not doing that. They don't want you here. Case in point - the new immigration reform allows you to bring your parents on FRV only if you're coming here on a high paying blue card job.

So if your goal is to explicitly attract these kinds of privileged individuals, then it's pointless to get pissed off when they speak from their position of privilege.

> Also, please show some respect to the country you live in.

So what, I should kow tow to a broken system and praise it? No thanks. People and countries should be able to take criticism. Also, just because I complain about everything that is bad doesn't mean that there is nothing good. It's just that none of them apply to a thread about Germany's dire immigration situation.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#76
It's funny that everybody is focusing on how Germans won't change language to something else to attract muh migrants. But there's no talk about local culture. How do we raise next generation to go do real jobs? Instead of dreaming to become tiktokers or whatever is fancy at the moment.

Few migrants won't fix anything if locals sit on their asses. Especially if local culture pushes 2nd/3rd gen migrants the same way.

We need to use state propaganda machine (which is already very well greased in EU) to make it fancy to be engineer, doctor and so on. And then make sure those professions let people build a nice life. Universities have to be geared towards that as well.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#77
post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

everybody who ever stepped a foot into india knows this is nonsense. even you know that which is why you didn't leave to somewhere else.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#78
post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

I am not a german but from India. while there is lack of digitialisation but most things work fine

> So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996.

Seriously then leave the country.

> Germany will stay as it is for ever - there is no need to change in their view.

You are attacking Germans.

- Million rules exist and if followed then it works smoothly.

- I know vast majority of Indians think bureaucracy works like India

- Assuming you are from wealthy background or software or doctor etc. They expect minimal paperwork and want the German bureaucrats to skip things. Why? because they are entitled.

- The rules are very clearly laid out. Too often people from India fill up forms like

- If you complain so much about German bureaucrats try to get your passport or any documents (like attestation) from Indian Consulate/Embassy. Unless you have power/connections etc. they delay it EVEN when you give all papers. Look all the ridiculous docx or PDF with one small line for complete address in embassy website. More over if you dont speak Hindi it is PITA.

> he vast majority of Germans think this is all acceptable

They don't. But remember many things in Germany are designed for EVERYONE. Incl. non smartphone users.

- Look at Indian railway system: If you have coding skill all tickets are booked by these people. And people that wait for booking in counters are left NO with no seats on the first day of booking availablity. Is this happening?

- Data protection. Sure in India: you dont care and upload any document by whatsapp etc. We dont.

- Language: it is painful. But why not learn? (Given the fact Govt of India wants Southern people to learn Hindi - why dont you learn German)

> health insurance, but

I call BS. How many helicopters are available for you in India for the €100 - €200 you pay in Germany. Do you know the number of celebrities from Bollywood that came to Germany to get COVID vaccine (Yes, I am in this field).

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#79
post #75
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just your experience. You say as if things in India are all bed of roses. No major city in India (forget small towns) can boast of breathable air, manageable traffic, potable water from the tap or 24 hours of electricity. Women's safety - lol. Finding a place where there is a clean lake or some non-polluted piece of nature - forget that in North India. Not to mention as a minority, who knows when you can be l…

> People come here, reek of privilege, miss their life in India where they had 3 servants for everything and also forget that if they have to go to any government office in India they have to pay bribes. Unfortunately these are the exact people that Germany wants moving into their country - because they're the one's who pay the high taxes. Do you think Germany is throwing open their doors for the underprivileged folk…

sounds like you miss your servants which happen to be a little too expensive for you here ... and you even have to treat them respectful. what a bummer

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#80
post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

> And then there's the wait time for everything. Appointment for visa extension: 8 months. Driving license conversion: 1 year. German exam: 5 months. What, you want the results for your exam also? Better wait another year then. Honestly Germany is a shit show, and if I hadn't already invested so much time, money and energy into this god forsaken country, I'd be out of here in a heartbeat.

I don't want to downplay any of this and I mostly agree with your points, but as a German the only "related" things I have to do is renew my ID and passport every 10 years and I've never had to wait such a long time (I think we're due to a change in our driving licenses, but that's one time, and I've not touched mine since I got it over 20 years ago).

My point being that we're not talking everyday things. Also not sure how long you've been here, before covid I could usually get one of these appointments in the next few weeks, like.. 2 or 3, which I found pretty reasonable. (just checked online, next available appointments are Tue-Fri next week). It was really bad in 2020-2022.

So maybe it depends on your city and the exact document you need to have renewed. I'm not saying this is a great country with low bureaucracy or that we're downplaying anything per se - but I've never heard a foreign national coworker complain that much, so maybe my town was just better at this all the time?

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