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Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

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Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#121

Post by SkyPuncher »

nprateem wrote: post #30
taeric wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a colemak user, I have the same flow. I used to have a keyboard that had blank keycaps, but that isn't kind to the rest of the family that uses the computer. :D Numbers, amusingly, can mess me up.

I have literally just learnt about colemak from these comments. I suffer from RSI and have tried Dvorak in the past, but as a qwerty touch typist found it too different. How long did it take you to learn colemak? I guess if you still use it you find it better than qwerty?

It took me 4 weeks to get back to 50% speed. 4 months to get back to 75% speed. 4 years to type faster than Qwerty.

I'm incredibly happy with my switch. I was getting RSI pain from awkward top-to-bottom row maneuvers with Qwerty. I still have some pain, but that's mostly from using the computer far too much.

Most of the challenge is not about learning the new layout, but getting your muscle memory to forget about the old way of doing things. If I were to do it again, I'd recommend a progressive layout change; switching a single set of keys at a time. It takes longer to switch, but reduces the upfront mental load.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#122

Post by akira2501 »

nfriend wrote: post #26

Anecdotally, I gave Dvorak a try and became somewhat proficient, but ultimately reverted back to QWERTY for one reason: keyboard shortcuts! Control-C|V|Z are all transformed into either two-handed shortcuts or right-handed shortcuts. In either case, I can't copy/paste while selecting text with the mouse (since I'm right-handed). I now use Colemak ( https://colemak.com/ ) which doesn't have this issue and I'm quite ha…

For me it was the burden of typing 'ls'. I'm in the shell a lot, and the dvorak layout is very much _not_ shell friendly.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#123

Post by SkyPuncher »

aaron_m04 wrote: post #6

One YouTube comment echoed my experience with Dvorak: > Often overlooked is that the main reason for switching to dvorak isn't speed for most users. The dvorak layout is layed out for minimal movement while maintaining a roughly even split between hands. This reduces strain on a typists hands and helps a great deal with comfort when typing for longer periods of time. I may not type faster than if I had stuck with qwe…

This was my driving factor for switching to Colemak (I considered Dvorak, but felt Colemak was easier for _me_ to learn).

I'm starting to get some finger pain again, but that's almost entirely from overuse. QWERTY was crushing my hands. Far too many, weird twisting moves to hit consecutive keys between top and bottom rows.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#124

Post by GoldenRacer »

lawn wrote: post #32
grog454 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Split keyboards can help with wrist positioning but not finger travel, both of which can contribute to wrist problems.

That's why you should also choose a small keyboard, like one with 34 keys or similar.

What type of layout do you use for 34 keys?

I've got a 42 key split board so I'm not a total noob to minimalist keyboard but struggle to see how 34 keys can be used effectively.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#125

Post by SkyPuncher »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #5

As a dvorak user: in a way that's kinda great that dvorak didn't make it. It's terrible for mobile.

I still use Qwerty on mobile. Thumbs are completely different muscle memory. No reason to force an alternative layout everywhere.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#126

Post by abecedarius »

jerf wrote: post #57
kloch wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> QWERTY users naturally wander around and have their hands leave the home row and I'm not entirely convinced it's actually wrong. I think you are learning it wrong. It's not hard at all to learn QWERTY with the proper training technique. I took touch typing in High School, back in the 1980's. Even back then I knew I was going to be doing a lot of work with computers so it made sense to take it. It turned out to be t…

"I think you are learning it wrong." Well, of course I did. I used a keyboard for many years before my formal middle school typing class and by then it was too late. My brain already knew better and typing exercises did no good because I already knew how to use the keyboard without looking. I imagine this is the dominant case. If you want to fix it, I recommend simply learning a sensible layout for touch typing. You…

There's no shortage of good typing-tutor software. I learned from such a program on a home computer in the early 80s, no class needed.

(I now use Dvorak. Little effect on speed, but I do feel comfier.)

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#127

Post by lelag »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #5

As a dvorak user: in a way that's kinda great that dvorak didn't make it. It's terrible for mobile.

So true. Dvorak user for 20+ years but I find QWERTY to be much better for one handed typing on a touch screen.

I think it's the design goal of having a high chance of switching keyboard side each stroke that makes it so horrible.

Still I would never go back to using QWERTY on a real keyboard, using Dvorak is so much more comfortable.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#128

Post by GloriousKoji »

brodouevencode wrote: post #110

Most of the comments seem to be "I switched to Dvorak and love it" with a couple of "I switched to Dvorak but had to go back to QWERTY for other people". Is there anyone that became sufficiently proficient with Dvorak and regret it/wished they hadn't wasted their time?

I wish I didn't. I loved DVORAK when I used it and wish it was the standard so all the video game keys and office shortcuts didn't require a QWERTY layout but I feel like using DVORAK permanently ruined the keyboard pathway in my brain. When went back to QWERTY my typing accuracy took a hit compared to what it was before learning DVORAK. A couple decades later it still feels like I don't have absolute mastery of any keyboard layout anymore.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#129

Post by nprateem »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #121
nprateem wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have literally just learnt about colemak from these comments. I suffer from RSI and have tried Dvorak in the past, but as a qwerty touch typist found it too different. How long did it take you to learn colemak? I guess if you still use it you find it better than qwerty?

It took me 4 weeks to get back to 50% speed. 4 months to get back to 75% speed. 4 years to type faster than Qwerty. I'm incredibly happy with my switch. I was getting RSI pain from awkward top-to-bottom row maneuvers with Qwerty. I still have some pain, but that's mostly from using the computer far too much. Most of the challenge is not about learning the new layout, but getting your muscle memory to forget about the…

Thanks, that's encouraging. It's worth a go I guess. I'll probably spend 10-20 minutes per day using this [1] to progressively learn colemak-dh

[1] https://www.colemak.academy/

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#130

Post by gnicholas »

I am generally very efficiency-minded (I run a speed-reading startup!), but I have never even felt the urge to try an alternate layout. Has anyone else who initially resisted these given it a try, and how long did it take you to figure out if it was amazing, or meh?
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