Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 244 posts

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#101

Post by Zircom »

chasil wrote: post #79
jerf wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think you are learning it wrong." Well, of course I did. I used a keyboard for many years before my formal middle school typing class and by then it was too late. My brain already knew better and typing exercises did no good because I already knew how to use the keyboard without looking. I imagine this is the dominant case. If you want to fix it, I recommend simply learning a sensible layout for touch typing. You…

I also took junior high typing in the 1980s, but we used manual typewriters. There were two IBM Selectrics in the back of the class that were used by lucky students for the day. I type with only the three inner index fingers of each hand, because the keys on the manual typewriters were hard to press. This limits my typing speed to 60wpm. If I used all four fingers, I could probably hit 90.

I never learned to type formally and also use a limited amount of fingers. On my left hand I use my thumb+middle+index finger for everything except zaq and modifiers which I use my ring finger, and on my right hand I only use my middle and index finger for everything except for backspace/delete which I use my ring finger for. Still manage to hit 100WPM.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#102

Post by retrac »

api_or_ipa wrote: post #9

As a dvorak user, whatever increase in typing speed is mostly irrelevant, for most of us, our output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think. That being said, a long time ago I took an analysis of one of our code bases, mapped every character onto dvorak and qwerty keyboards to produce heatmaps, and it's startling how much less the fingers have to move on a dvorak keyboard. So if you're lazy,…

> how fast we can think [...] an analysis of one of our code bases

Well, with coding that's certainly true. I can spend all day trying to come up with a dozen lines of code. Input speed is not the barrier there. But for writing English prose, at around 90 wpm, my fingers are often lagging behind what I want to say. People can reach short bursts when speaking as fast as 300 wpm. When I get such bursts of thought, it can be hard to hold on to the end of it while I'm still typing the beginning.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#103

Post by jcalvinowens »

I switched to Colemak a little over 10 years ago and I've never looked back. I used to struggle a lot with hand pain when typing for more than a few hours, Colemak completely fixed that.

It took me about three weeks to become proficient enough that typing stopped being frustrating. Those three weeks really sucked, that was the hardest part.

It took a couple years, but I'm solidly "bilingual" now and can switch between Colemak and Qwerty with no effort.

There is zero overlap in my brain with thumb typing on the phone and touch typing on a keyboard. I've kept qwerty on my pixel and it's never bothered or confused me once.

It's not really a win for me in terms of productivity, but being able to type 120wpm is fun :)

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#104

Post by hakanderyal »

You can use Dvorak and QWERTY together.

I’ve been using Programmers Dvorak together with QWERTY for 10+ years. Whenever I need to use common shortcuts I switch layouts with a simple shortcut, and sometimes do this dance a few times if a few seconds subconsciously as needed.

Typing speed is unimportant, it’s the reduced strain that is the main benefit.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#105

Post by nashashmi »

api_or_ipa wrote: post #9

As a dvorak user, whatever increase in typing speed is mostly irrelevant, for most of us, our output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think. That being said, a long time ago I took an analysis of one of our code bases, mapped every character onto dvorak and qwerty keyboards to produce heatmaps, and it's startling how much less the fingers have to move on a dvorak keyboard. So if you're lazy,…

How did you solve the Shortcuts problem? I really gave Dvorak a good shot, but it completely failed when I was using auto cad CAD.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#106

Post by microtonal »

nprateem wrote: post #30
taeric wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a colemak user, I have the same flow. I used to have a keyboard that had blank keycaps, but that isn't kind to the rest of the family that uses the computer. :D Numbers, amusingly, can mess me up.

I have literally just learnt about colemak from these comments. I suffer from RSI and have tried Dvorak in the past, but as a qwerty touch typist found it too different. How long did it take you to learn colemak? I guess if you still use it you find it better than qwerty?

I use Colemak-DH and learned it through the Tarmak progression. RSI is probably the wrong reason to learn Colemak. It made little difference for me and as far as I know there is no scientific evidence that it helps.

Better: get an adjustable table and chair and ensure that they are correctly configured. Take regular breaks and do exercises. Get a keyboard that is split (to ensure that your wrists are not bent) and tented (to put our wrists at a more comfortable angle). Bonus points for column stagger. For me, switching to a Kinesis Advantage improved a lot to the point where I pretty much pain free.

(IANAD, but personal experience.)

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#107

Post by nashashmi »

hakanderyal wrote: post #104

You can use Dvorak and QWERTY together. I’ve been using Programmers Dvorak together with QWERTY for 10+ years. Whenever I need to use common shortcuts I switch layouts with a simple shortcut, and sometimes do this dance a few times if a few seconds subconsciously as needed. Typing speed is unimportant, it’s the reduced strain that is the main benefit.

So whenever you are constantly typing, you move to Dvorak? Otherwise you are in QWERTY?

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#108

Post by carabiner »

aaron_m04 wrote: post #6

One YouTube comment echoed my experience with Dvorak: > Often overlooked is that the main reason for switching to dvorak isn't speed for most users. The dvorak layout is layed out for minimal movement while maintaining a roughly even split between hands. This reduces strain on a typists hands and helps a great deal with comfort when typing for longer periods of time. I may not type faster than if I had stuck with qwe…

Yeah, I think this sums up every Dvorak debunking story that pops up on HN twice a year. You can type 100 WPM with two fingers as seen at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqyiyh_hrUs so layout does not matter too much for speed. You can see his physical movement does not appear superhuman, and this is well above average typing speed of 40 WPM.

Debunkers: It's not any faster!

Dvorak users: We know, and we don't care.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#109

Post by rsolva »

jcalvinowens wrote: post #103

I switched to Colemak a little over 10 years ago and I've never looked back. I used to struggle a lot with hand pain when typing for more than a few hours, Colemak completely fixed that. It took me about three weeks to become proficient enough that typing stopped being frustrating. Those three weeks really sucked, that was the hardest part. It took a couple years, but I'm solidly "bilingual" now and can switch betwee…

Your story is very similar to mine, I switched to Colemak in 2010 and it took about 3 weeks of 5 minutes bursts of practice a couple of times every day(ish).

I have never looked back. My motivation was moving my finger less, speed was just a bonus.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#110

Post by brodouevencode »

Most of the comments seem to be "I switched to Dvorak and love it" with a couple of "I switched to Dvorak but had to go back to QWERTY for other people".

Is there anyone that became sufficiently proficient with Dvorak and regret it/wished they hadn't wasted their time?

Post reply on HN