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Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

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Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#121

Post by fnordpiglet »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #97

https://nypost.com/2020/12/15/riots-at-apple-plant-in-india-... this is what apple does. they use their clout, then they turn their back and play ignorant whilst placing unrealistic demands on the subcontractors who then place those demand on the labour. from: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/02/14/only-half-of-indian-iph... > 'Apple engineers told that Chinese iPhone suppliers and government officials have a "whatever…

I like when people use words like inexplicable for things for which they know exactly how it’s achieved, but want to pretend they don’t because the answer is disturbing.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#122

Post by groffee »

spicybright wrote: post #113
Calvin02 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does she work more than 40 hours / week? If so, she very likely gets paid 1.5x for any hours worked above 40. Do you think Apple and Foxconn are paying Indian women time and a half for hours above 40? That said, I'm nearly 100% certain that these women would rather have these jobs working in a clean facility than the alternative.

Although it's not great to need to work that much, you can make absolute bank doing overtime. My mom's a nurse and occasionally gets called in out of the blue if there's shortages. If she agrees, she can get x2 to sometimes even x3 depending on what time and day of the year it is. As much of a drag it can be getting woken up to work, she still gets excited when it happens because of how good the pay is.

[flagged]

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#123

Post by dirtyid »

geodel wrote: post #115

Well, Apple/Foxconn gonna do Apple/Foxconn. But India really needs to look at growing unemployment problem for its massive population. Working hours need to be set like 30-40h a week. It helps nation (not necessarily companies) in two ways: 1) Employees to not get overworked as a rule. 2) Companies can hire more employees and run more shifts if they need 24/7 work. Right now there are huge number of young people sitt…

If Foxconn is going to follow the campus model, which is likely because Apple manufacturing cities draws labour from across country, that means building infra to house 2x-3x more workers, especially during surge production for new launches. Reality is it's a low margin business and Taiwanese companies have decades learning to squeeze blood from stone, hence their reputation of being slave drivers across Asia for a reason. Of course your system is good for India, but these companies are only in India because it's good for them.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#124

Post by AlecSchueler »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #83
vishnugupta wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know the finer details, but if they are proportionately paid more this is definitely a big step in the right direction for women workers. In general, women participation in workforce is outright abysmal in India. Hopefully this will be on of the many small steps towards addressing that.

Can you elaborate what precisely is the issue with low female participation in a country's workforce?

It makes it harder for women who want to participate to participate. Simple as that.

Women aren't commodities whose freedoms should be limited relative to men because of what it might do to "demographics and families."

Women aren't slaves to be tied to home. They have agency and should be awarded the same legal freedoms as men.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#125

Post by ROTMetro »

soperj wrote: post #68

This makes sense, since in general India is known for it's lack of available work force, so having people being able to work more overtime is the most logical thing. /sarcasm

Yes, let's take these high repetitive stress injury rate jobs and tack an extra four hours on. Of course the workers will do it, they don't have a choice. But their body's won't for long. But that's a sacrifice Apples willing to make for the convenience of less production line handoffs.

As someone who has been at the bottom and had very unfavorable work conditions forced on me because companies could F! Apple, do better, be better.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#126

Post by TaylorAlexander »

dcow wrote: post #41
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m no expert on this but there’s a long history in the fight for an 8 hour work day. Many people (myself included) think we should move to even shorter workdays, or shorter work weeks. I like the slogan they had: “8 hours for sleep, 8 hours for work, 8 hours for what we will” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day

Nobody is forcing anybody to work 12 hours a day?

> Nobody is forcing anybody to work 12 hours a day?

Do you have a source for this claim? Normally when I hear about workers at factories like this, they are treated like shit in all kinds of ways, given few other options, physically abused, and strongly coerced in to the longest shifts legally possible, or longer.

See this documentary about global garment workers. Hopefully Foxconn is better, but we can't just assume people are not being abused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxFwA-jw3X4

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#127

Post by ROTMetro »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #118
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #116

Vote with your dollars, people. Don't buy Apple and Foxconn products if you care about the wellbeing of workers.

True. We wouldn’t want women to be able to earn as much as men in India. It’s important to take a principled stand against gender parity and punish these guys with your wallet.

We don't want people crippled from abusive levels of hours doing a task at high risk of repetitive stress injury just so that Apple doesn't have to deal with shift changes. They are trading lifetime quality of life issues for their workers (who don't have much other option) for a reduction in shift changes. As someone whose been at the bottom and seen as throway sorting trash at a recycling facility and whose hands still often ache from that job, F! Apple!

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#128

Post by steve_adams_86 »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #121
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #97

https://nypost.com/2020/12/15/riots-at-apple-plant-in-india-... this is what apple does. they use their clout, then they turn their back and play ignorant whilst placing unrealistic demands on the subcontractors who then place those demand on the labour. from: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/02/14/only-half-of-indian-iph... > 'Apple engineers told that Chinese iPhone suppliers and government officials have a "whatever…

I like when people use words like inexplicable for things for which they know exactly how it’s achieved, but want to pretend they don’t because the answer is disturbing.

iPhones are not worth that answer. Nor is any other electronic. I wish this was escapable somehow, but my employer literally requires and pays for this equipment. To abstain from employment would be crazy – it wouldn't send a message to Apple. What the hell can someone do?

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#129

Post by geodel »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #98
asdajksah2123 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that half your workforce doesn't have an opportunity to contribute to the country's growth? I mean, cut the US or Europe's output by 25-30% (to match India's low female participation) and you're basically talking about eliminating decades of growth. People would be so much poorer and worse off. And that's just at the national level. There are a whole lot of other issues at the individual level, and the fact…

Is a nations prosperity only related to its nominal growth and GDP? Then why don't we send more children to work as well to increase "growth" a bit further? Are there no tradeoffs involved? Like what it does to a country's demographics and families? Are there other ways to increase GDP without forcing women into the workforce - with potentially better tradeoffs?

You are surely making great points. Some people obsessed with mindless economic growth don't think there is anything beyond it. With full support of media, intelligentsia and economists there is this myth created where anyone not doing a paid job for external entity is an inferior person or oppressed person.

I have read endless stories in Indian newspapers where a person hauling their four member family on an underpowered scooter to a McDonalds meal is a aspiring middle class. On the other hand if a family is having a hot meal at home on weekend it is obviously because women of house is oppressed to stay at home and cook.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#130

Post by mrguyorama »

cwmma wrote: post #103
mungoman2 wrote: post #74

I don't get this. Why push your work force like this? It's clearly very bad for the workers. And also for the factory, surely having 3 shifts is more efficient because your workers are not as fatigued so will work faster with fewer mistakes?

You see this in hospitals too and I believe the rational there is that you want to reduce the number of shift changes. In a manufacturing context where you might need to shut down the line in order to change shifts it might be a big money saver to only have to do that twice a day even if you're paying out overtime.

Except that rationale has time and time again shown itself to be horseshit, and doctors would be better off with more shifts (so they weren't overtired like half of their shift and therefore making mistakes) and better processes for hand offs.
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