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Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

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Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#121

Post by yamtaddle »

klodolph wrote: post #45
mabbo wrote: post #32

Apple's underlying economics haven't changed, so they have not had any reason to over-hire in the first place. Amazon, Google, Meta, Shopify and others are all e-commerce based. There was a clear trend that e-commerce had shifted up due to the pandemic, and looked to be permanent. That bet was wrong, so they all had layoffs. Other companies were willing to hire lots of developers because the ROI on devs was good comp…

Amazon, Google, and Meta all seem to make riskier bets, too. Both strategies make sense—make big, risky investments, or grind out more profits in existing, highly lucrative markets.

I get putting Meta on that list because of its bet that worse Second Life can be a hyper-lucrative business model, but the other two?

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#122

Post by baxtr »

wand3r wrote: post #33

> Apple, meanwhile, was more cautious. Its headcount increased just 20% from 2020 to 2022 At Apples size this is still pretty huge. At least, I thought it was until I saw that Amazon, Meta and Salesforce basically DOUBLED in 2 years. If this data is correct isnt that insane? How can you effectively double orgs of this size over a 2 year period? Its not like a startup with 50 people or something. I guess I was out of…

Do you have a link to data supporting the doubling? I would love to see the numbers!

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#123

Post by Ancalagon »

mabbo wrote: post #32

Apple's underlying economics haven't changed, so they have not had any reason to over-hire in the first place. Amazon, Google, Meta, Shopify and others are all e-commerce based. There was a clear trend that e-commerce had shifted up due to the pandemic, and looked to be permanent. That bet was wrong, so they all had layoffs. Other companies were willing to hire lots of developers because the ROI on devs was good comp…

Was it even mostly devs that were hired/fired? Anecdotally on the firing side it’s mostly recruiters and business ops even for these companies

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#124

Post by williamcotton »

wand3r wrote: post #33

> Apple, meanwhile, was more cautious. Its headcount increased just 20% from 2020 to 2022 At Apples size this is still pretty huge. At least, I thought it was until I saw that Amazon, Meta and Salesforce basically DOUBLED in 2 years. If this data is correct isnt that insane? How can you effectively double orgs of this size over a 2 year period? Its not like a startup with 50 people or something. I guess I was out of…

It was all totally insane. The actual narrative of the layoffs is this:

High performing public tech companies went totally insane and doubled their head counts. Everyone else was a cargo cult with an open checkbook so they insanity-squared their head counts. No one could possibly manage such a gigantic influx of knowledge workers so resources were obviously being poorly allocated industry-wide. This first had an impact on low performing public companies, followed by the higher performing public companies, and then the cargo cults.

The places that didn't go insane were not only unaffected but stand to benefit immensely.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#125

Post by sam0x17 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #94
sam0x17 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are probably one of the best run companies in the world. I would disagree with this. Although their risk is spread much better than it was in the early 00s, a huge amount of their recurring revenue right now teeters on the brink of destruction in the form of their 30% app store cut and the walled-garden nature of their app store. All it would take is a morally principled, non-lobbied regulator to step in and r…

Playing the game according to the current rules seems preferable than playing the game according to rules that may or may not come into existence. Also, they will still be one of the, if not most, profitable businesses in the world even if they lose all the App Store revenue, so it does not seem reasonable to expect more.

Companies of this size need to play the long game, but quarterly OKRs and a beuracratic structure ensure they only ever play the short game. The 30% is great this quarter and next quarter, and every quarter until the quarter where it goes away completely. Keeping it this high is extremely risky behavior, literally taunting for regulation.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#126

Post by sam0x17 »

dmix wrote: post #114
sam0x17 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying they have over-extended to the point where they are begging for regulation. Much wiser to not over-extend to the point where regulators are pissed off. Now they could lose it all instead of having a more reasonable rate. At this point they should self-regulate, like any misbehaving child who realizes they are in the wrong should before they get punished. It's not a risk and it's not going to hurt their sto…

So what should they have done? Conceded to a group of Epic type companies on a VIP-type basis so regulators don't eat their lucrative subscription model? Without bigco lobbying the gov I doubt there'd be as much regulatory pressure. So the best bet might have been to work with the major companies hiring lobbyists and getting PR. Rumour is Apple is opening up side-loading so the "walled garden" thing might be neutered…

No no they should have never had it above 10% to begin with. The case with Epic never should have needed to happen. They've been over-extended all along.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#127

Post by lapcat »

zinekeller wrote: post #113
lapcat wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most layoffs are happening in growth businesses that aren’t even profitable on paper. Google? Facebook? Microsoft? All very profitable, all doing layoffs.

> on paper This is the important word. Although Alphabet, Meta and Microsoft overall are profitable there are parts of it that a) was (and still not profitable) and b) was in demand in the last three years but are now softened enough that it turns "okay, unprofitable but manageble" into "this has become a money pit". Since that they are cutting off anyway, why not throw laggards and undesirables into the mix? I estim…

> Meta no longer grows in its traditional business in social media

"Almost 20 years in, Facebook is still growing. The social network now has 2 billion daily active users, Meta reported alongside its fourth-quarter earnings. The report marks the first time Facebook, which added 16 million users last quarter, has reached 2 billion daily users." https://www.engadget.com/facebook-2-billion-meta-q4-2022-ear...

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#128

Post by bbor »

r00fus wrote: post #48
jungledeuce wrote: post #25

You mean to tell me that Apple could have created thousands of high paying jobs, if only for several years, but didn’t. And this is good? I can never remember who to be mad at. More seriously, I realize this is just clickbait, but I wonder how you could determine objectively which approach (hiring slow and needing to catch up, hiring medium, hiring fast and needing to fire) is “better for business”. Seems very hard t…

> You mean to tell me that Apple could have created thousands of high paying jobs, if only for several years, but didn’t. And this is good? Yes, I consider it good management and judgement. Apple is a company, not some charity. Amazon, etc didn't hire out of the goodness of their hearts they felt they could capitalize on something that didn't materialize.

I think it’s a joke :) the point is companies aren’t charities and layoffs aren’t cruel, just business. Which is capitalist propaganda, of course!

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#130

Post by lotsofpulp »

sam0x17 wrote: post #125
lotsofpulp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing the game according to the current rules seems preferable than playing the game according to rules that may or may not come into existence. Also, they will still be one of the, if not most, profitable businesses in the world even if they lose all the App Store revenue, so it does not seem reasonable to expect more.

Companies of this size need to play the long game, but quarterly OKRs and a beuracratic structure ensure they only ever play the short game. The 30% is great this quarter and next quarter, and every quarter until the quarter where it goes away completely. Keeping it this high is extremely risky behavior, literally taunting for regulation.

If you look at Apple’s results and products and think they are playing for next quarter, I do not know what to tell you.

The App Store model has served them well for years. If it stops serving them well next quarter, so what?

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