Live data from Hacker News

Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

bloomberg.com

91–100 of 439 posts

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#91
post #33

> Apple, meanwhile, was more cautious. Its headcount increased just 20% from 2020 to 2022 At Apples size this is still pretty huge. At least, I thought it was until I saw that Amazon, Meta and Salesforce basically DOUBLED in 2 years. If this data is correct isnt that insane? How can you effectively double orgs of this size over a 2 year period? Its not like a startup with 50 people or something. I guess I was out of…

Growing too fast is damaging to both culture and productivity. You have a bunch of people starting that are still learning. Depending on the job and the person it can take a full year to be fully competent in a job. Apple was smart to move slower. They are probably one of the best run companies in the world.

> They are probably one of the best run companies in the world.

I would disagree with this. Although their risk is spread much better than it was in the early 00s, a huge amount of their recurring revenue right now teeters on the brink of destruction in the form of their 30% app store cut and the walled-garden nature of their app store. All it would take is a morally principled, non-lobbied regulator to step in and regulate that down to something reasonable like 5% or 3% and require allowing third party app stores (both actions would be equivalent economically because their current fee only works because of their monopoly), and I don't see someting like this not happening in the next decade.

It will be a huge and deserved adjustment when this does happen, and stock speculation will only amplify the blow in the form of lost stock value. There are many, many long-time holders of apple stock who might see the threat of such an event as a time to finally sell. Then we'll see how much value is really there.

Additionally, they have sunk billions of dollars in a brand new campus at a time when WFH is here to stay. That investment will also likely turn out to be worthless in the coming decades as the value of CRE races to $0.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#92
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most layoffs are happening in growth businesses that aren’t even profitable on paper. Google? Facebook? Microsoft? All very profitable, all doing layoffs.

My guess most of these companies were also borrowing money. You can look on their balance sheets for the stock. When that rate is low it makes a lot of sense to grow and borrow. When that rate goes up the math changes. No matter how profitable you are. There could be quite a bit of 'someone had to go first' fad going on too. Adding headcount just because you make tons of money does not necessarily make sense. It just…

> My guess most of these companies were also borrowing money. You can look on their balance sheets for the stock.

You don't have to guess. These are publicly owned corporations. Their published balanced sheets include debt.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#93
post #33

> Apple, meanwhile, was more cautious. Its headcount increased just 20% from 2020 to 2022 At Apples size this is still pretty huge. At least, I thought it was until I saw that Amazon, Meta and Salesforce basically DOUBLED in 2 years. If this data is correct isnt that insane? How can you effectively double orgs of this size over a 2 year period? Its not like a startup with 50 people or something. I guess I was out of…

Growing too fast is damaging to both culture and productivity. You have a bunch of people starting that are still learning. Depending on the job and the person it can take a full year to be fully competent in a job. Apple was smart to move slower. They are probably one of the best run companies in the world.

> one of the best run companies

They off-source all of their factory efforts to other companies. The other companies are doing the hiring and firing.

Probably the best run company is Qualcomm. I have never heard them do layoffs. And they are based in San Diego.

edit: Just googled it and found https://www.thelayoff.com/t/1l5vLinG

edit2: also, https://www.thelayoff.com/apple

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#94
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing too fast is damaging to both culture and productivity. You have a bunch of people starting that are still learning. Depending on the job and the person it can take a full year to be fully competent in a job. Apple was smart to move slower. They are probably one of the best run companies in the world.

> They are probably one of the best run companies in the world. I would disagree with this. Although their risk is spread much better than it was in the early 00s, a huge amount of their recurring revenue right now teeters on the brink of destruction in the form of their 30% app store cut and the walled-garden nature of their app store. All it would take is a morally principled, non-lobbied regulator to step in and r…

Playing the game according to the current rules seems preferable than playing the game according to rules that may or may not come into existence.

Also, they will still be one of the, if not most, profitable businesses in the world even if they lose all the App Store revenue, so it does not seem reasonable to expect more.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing too fast is damaging to both culture and productivity. You have a bunch of people starting that are still learning. Depending on the job and the person it can take a full year to be fully competent in a job. Apple was smart to move slower. They are probably one of the best run companies in the world.

> one of the best run companies They off-source all of their factory efforts to other companies. The other companies are doing the hiring and firing. Probably the best run company is Qualcomm. I have never heard them do layoffs. And they are based in San Diego. edit: Just googled it and found https://www.thelayoff.com/t/1l5vLinG edit2: also, https://www.thelayoff.com/apple

[deleted]

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#96

Apple’s job losses are hidden because they don’t build anything physical, they let their suppliers fire and hire.

Is there any evidence of Apple supplier mass layoffs? If anything, Apple has had supply chain problems of not being able to produce hardware fast enough to meet demand, due to pandemic-related closures in China.

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#99
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing Google and Facebooks profit centers are much more narrow? Eg. Google Ads. Facebook has the Metaverse Black Hole whereas has Googles countless endeavours (eg. Chat)

Yeah but they’re still some of the most profitable companies in the world, and Google at least has many billions in the bank. I feel you’re moving goalposts?

Yes true but they overhired and most growth has stalled. The idea I'm getting are the layoffs are happening in the less profitable parts of the business.

Also, I was told because of the severance packages, these companies aren't going to be saving any money until a few months down.

That said I read a few days ago Apple may start doing cuts in the future. iPhone sales are down 8% and smartphone sales in general are down 18%!

Re: Apple avoids job cuts because it didn’t overhire like Google and Amazon

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To help bring the next paradigm in computing interfaces. I don’t understand why people have forgotten all of the sci-fi movies that have been showing what’s possible

Ah yes. Sci fi movies that have to show flashy special effects that would never work this way in real life: from headache-inducing colors and animation to having to hold your hands up fir an extended period of time to do the simplest things to see-through interfaces.

> show flashy special effects that would never work this way in real life

This is only true if you can’t see the future that’s right in front of your eyes. Also unless something will violate laws of physics, it’s not wise to say that never will happen or is impossible to achieve

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/oblong-minority-report-john-...

We also already have Quest 2 as a pretty good VR device that’s shipped, not to mention stuff from other companies like valve

Post reply on HN