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DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

science.org

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Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#121

Post by Kye »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #75
threatofrain wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Trump brought a lot of heat on Asians who have no real allies among Democrats or Republicans.

Did he though? I mean, I get that he called COVID-19 the kung fu flu... but that was more directed towards China and suggesting that they were responsible, meaning their government. I guess he could have consistently clarified that it was directed towards the Chinese government, but I don't know if he bears the brunt of responsibility of dumb people that think China meant all Asians and to not be able to understand t…

The kind of people who are swayed by racist rhetoric don't care about the difference. They get a notion to go out and attack the target ethnicity and find the nearest brown person.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#122

Post by collegeburner »

ajross wrote: post #55
throwawaysleep wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I deny that it should matter for grants, hiring, and other career benefits. But it does and while it does, I shall claim I am gay.

That's what you said the first time, and I get the irony. I'm just struck that you're taking such care in your phrasing to clarify to the folks here how you're not actually gay. That doesn't seem to you to cut against your point? You think your identity is important enough not to be ambiguous about it[1], but not important enough to maybe be worth checking to see if people are being fair about it? (Which at the end o…

he has to make it clear he's not actually gay because that's core to his point, which is anybody can claim it. obviously irl he's not gonna fill out the diversity section with "i'm gay (not actually lmaoo)".

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#123

Post by ajross »

Bakary wrote: post #118
ajross wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still arguing against a point I said explicitly was not mine. I won't presume to speak for you or why you're "not getting the vibe", but I can say with authority that it is the wrong vibe and that you have misunderstood.

I understand the argument, I just disagree with the premise that the OP was specifically anxious about not being seen as gay (though maybe they are in other contexts, I don't know) or that in context being gay is presented as an insult. The premise is projection and/or mind reading in this particular case. More generally, cynicism about diversity points doesn't automatically mean disagreeing with the validity of LGBT…

And I think the fact that "prove me wrong" was included the first time, that Velc (making the same misinterpretation you did) thought it was "snide" to insinuate that the OP was gay, and that you jumped in to a thread seven comments down to tell me that you were "irritated" that I was calling the OP "homophobic" puts the lie to that.

No, all three of you are clearly bothered by the idea that someone would be incorrectly identified. Identity matters to all three of you. All I'm asking is that you recognize that it matters to other people too, like for example the DOE grant reviewers.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#124

Post by djanlermats2020 »

gruez wrote: post #74
faeriechangling wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just wish they would stop talking about fighting systemic racism while literally being the greatest institution of systemic racism in the world. I can kind of see where they’re coming from and the benefits they have in some ways, but it’s incredible the same people who enforce racial quotas for a living give condescending seminars on how to be anti-racist. I think there is some social good in equity at any cost jus…

> I just wish they would stop talking about fighting systemic racism while literally being the greatest institution of systemic racism in the world. I can kind of see where they’re coming from and the benefits they have in some ways, but it’s incredible the same people who enforce racial quotas for a living give condescending seminars on how to be anti-racist. They fixed that inconsistency by redefining racism in ter…

If they're getting paid and you're required to listen to them then they have the power and you're the oppressed one.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#125

Post by djanlermats2020 »

Bakary wrote: post #106
remarkEon wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if the Manhattan Project was constructed with these ridiculous requirements.

This could be a somewhat ironic example considering the likelihood that many people who could have contributed to the Manhattan Project were unable to do so due to institutional barriers relating to their ethnicity. Even some talented people who did work for the Project got life-altering roadblocks later on such as Qian Xuesen.

Sure, there were a bunch of genius-level physicists capable of building an atom bomb and the US Government didn't use them because it wanted to be mean to people. That's believable.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#126

Post by djanlermats2020 »

ajross wrote: post #19
throwawaysleep wrote: post #2

You also seem to just self declare on most applications, so claim whatever race/gender/sexuality you want. I am gay. Prove me wrong.

> I am gay. Prove me wrong. The weird thing about this is that you're relying on a clear sense of your own identity (that you are not gay, because if you were you wouldn't challenge someone to prove you wrong, you'd just say it) to deny the value of other people doing the same thing, but with a different answer. To wit: you're yelling about your own sexuality in an argument about how we shouldn't have to hear about s…

> Trans kids don't get to say stuff like that on the internet

Lol, trans kids get to say any ridiculous shit they want to. What internet are you on?

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#127

Post by djanlermats2020 »

Kye wrote: post #121
encryptluks2 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he though? I mean, I get that he called COVID-19 the kung fu flu... but that was more directed towards China and suggesting that they were responsible, meaning their government. I guess he could have consistently clarified that it was directed towards the Chinese government, but I don't know if he bears the brunt of responsibility of dumb people that think China meant all Asians and to not be able to understand t…

The kind of people who are swayed by racist rhetoric don't care about the difference. They get a notion to go out and attack the target ethnicity and find the nearest brown person.

People who do this sort of thing are incredibly rare lol. Most interracial violence is black on white.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#128

Post by Bakary »

djanlermats2020 wrote: post #125
Bakary wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be a somewhat ironic example considering the likelihood that many people who could have contributed to the Manhattan Project were unable to do so due to institutional barriers relating to their ethnicity. Even some talented people who did work for the Project got life-altering roadblocks later on such as Qian Xuesen.

Sure, there were a bunch of genius-level physicists capable of building an atom bomb and the US Government didn't use them because it wanted to be mean to people. That's believable.

No, the idea is that in that era an untold number of talented people were barred from contributing to the US due to discriminatory roadblocks at every level in terms of access to education and so on.

Your sarcasm is hilariously misplaced because the person I cited was driven away by stubborn US officials only to become the leading light behind the Chinese nuclear program. All they had to do was leave him alone. So yes, what you are describing literally happened...

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#129

Post by kbelder »

viridian wrote: post #109

I've already solved this, at least with regards to myself. I'm bisexual, native American, and have an invisible disability, for any form that asks. I haven't transitioned on paper yet, but may if it proves useful. I have no respect for these processes, and feel no guilt about my responses.

I couldn't bring myself to lie, honestly, but I feel that there's no ethical problem in lying to those sorts of questions. The ethical problem is solely in the wheelhouse of the people asking.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#130

Post by canistista »

faeriechangling wrote: post #96
dymk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re a capable software engineer, you don’t need dark skin or the right genitals to get a job.

If you're a capable software engineer, you won't be negatively affected by affirmative action either. We still care about the issue because it has a profound effect on mediocre software engineers of various ethnicities and with various genitals.

you have to do their work for them
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