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The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

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Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#121

Post by lukifer »

teekert wrote: post #21
Jimmc414 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edward Snowden @Snowden This is not a drill. Matthew Green @matthew_d_green Reminder to Silicon Valley: there’s an even chance that many governments in the world will be run by authoritarian movements in the future. Your window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out.

Ok, that's just a copy paste, but the message is: Encrypt all the things (no backdoors) so your civilians can't be spied on and their vital communications can't be disrupted. Right? That's the message (again)? I mean I agree, and I use services accordingly (Signal, NextCloud, Home Assistant) but, is there a special reason why he is saying it now, with some urgency? Did something happen?

I don't think this is in response to anything specific. It's more an acknowledgement of an ongoing "boiling frog" problem.

I recently heard Eliezer Yudkowsky make this comparison in the (somewhat) related domain of AI safety: let's say you gained reliable intel that aliens were invading in exactly 30 years. Do you begin acting immediately, or do you wait? Anything you could do now, you could probably do next year. But the problem is, there's no obvious point at which to act; on any given day, you keep kicking the ball down the road.

The same logic applies even if the length of time is unknown (X years). There is a high probability of future crises regarding both AI safety, and authoritarian states leveraging surveillance and social algorithms. In both cases, if we wait for a clear instigating event, it may be too late.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#122

Post by dang »

weljlkjlkerg wrote: post #68

It's painfully obvious OP is talking about a smart phone and a vax passport. You don't have to be "anti-vax" (which is a stupid stupid term) to be anti-vax-passport. The people pushing for vax passports have no clue what they are unleashing. It is absolutely fascist, evil and incredibly surprising to me that 99% of the people on this website are in 100% favor of it. EVIL.

We detached this flamewar subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30087680. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30088337.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#123

Post by digisign »

It's kinda scary how fast all this happened. Try taking your kid to an amusement park without surrendering your personal history and current whereabouts. They don't even care to support other avenues because they already know almost no one is going to turn around after arriving, after seeing kids' puppy-dog eyes.

Recent pandemic was the perfect excuse to hit fast-forward on eliminating cash (although not a major transmission factor) and privacy along with it. Never let a crisis go to waste, as they say.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#124

Post by zx85wes »

DoctorOW wrote: post #76
teekert wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, that's just a copy paste, but the message is: Encrypt all the things (no backdoors) so your civilians can't be spied on and their vital communications can't be disrupted. Right? That's the message (again)? I mean I agree, and I use services accordingly (Signal, NextCloud, Home Assistant) but, is there a special reason why he is saying it now, with some urgency? Did something happen?

In terms of "Did something happen?" there's a fair number of examples of governments both failing and succeeding at strong arming tech companies for intelligence/defense/etc. However, the big event you seem worried about is a predicted near future event hasn't happened yet. Like a tech equivalent of climate change, all the little things over the years add up to one big urgent thing.

Dramatic escalation of the conflict between NATO and Russia is a matter of weeks. You can be sure governments in the west will use that 'good crisis' to crack down on civil liberties.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#125

Post by dang »

weljlkjlkerg wrote: post #81
warning26 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Literally everywhere that requires a vax card accepts paper versions too

[flagged]

You can't post like this to HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. I've banned the account. Please don't create accounts to do flamewar on HN—we're trying to avoid having this place burn to a crisp, and we need everyone's help with that: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

By the way, it isn't in your own interest to do this either. By posting this way, all you do is discredit your own view and reinforce the other side. You give people who might be open to your view a fresh reason to reject it—after all, if fuming and fulminating is the best that you can come up with, your case must be terribly weak. This is a poor trade for you to make in exchange for a moment of internet venting.

Not only that, but if your view happens to actually be correct, then what you're doing has the side effect of discrediting the truth, which is not in any of our interests. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#126

Post by azangru »

avgcorrection wrote: post #116
azangru wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even before covid, when it turned out that society wants to track my movements or to reward and punish me based on my medical history, it could easily be swayed with such words as "pedophile ", "terrorists", or "drugs". So much so that it might want to be able to monitor my private messaging (and prevent its encryption) to make sure that I am neither a pedophile, nor a terrorist; or might want to check my social medi…

Have fun with those ghosts of yours. The power elite sets policy. Not vague sentiments.

> Have fun with those ghosts of yours.

Thanks. Will do.

> The power elite sets policy. Not vague sentiments.

What do you mean by this? What's a power elite; doesn't it, in a democracy, rule with the approval of the society, and why would one be happy with a power elite's policy that lets it intrude into your private life anyway?

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#127

Post by dandanua »

tazjin wrote: post #39
dandanua wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is working on terrorizing their neighbors, and suppression of their own population except super rich. Sure, every move they make is supplied with "blame America!", but I doubt that this "trick" really works nowadays.

I understand that this is the dominant view in the Western sphere and there's really no point arguing about it, our priors would be too different. Doesn't change anything about what I said about tech dependence though, especially between Europe/US (where Russia is not in the picture at all).

> and there's really no point arguing about it

The truth is singular, we don't live in parallel universes. My prior is that 2+2=4. But, of course, this is not a place to fight about everything else. We have a free speech here, so that everyone can just stick to their own thoughts.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#128

Post by Buttons840 »

martythemaniak wrote: post #74
azangru wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This fills me with dread, resentment and anger. I wanted a future where I would be the master of technology, and what I am getting instead is more of the "I can't let you do this, Dave" vibe. I want to live in a community of individuals, not be subjugated to whatever happens to feed the anxieties and neuroses of society. Is there... will there be a way to resist this obscenity?

No, the reason you see this increasing control is because people dont' want to give a small minority the ability to fuck up the rest of society. There is nowhere go to on Earth, because the entire world is spoken for. Hence why people will settle space. It's treated as a pie in the sky joke today, but once it's "affordable" (ie, 250K per ticket) many people will go. Long term, it'll be an essential pressure release v…

Surveillance will be even greater in an offworld colony. But they will, perhaps, be free to set dinner of their own rules and laws as the group sees fit.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#129

Post by digisign »

Quigglez wrote: post #55
choeger wrote: post #18

We are long beyond that point, sadly. We are right now in the process of a) becoming legally required to own and carry a particular kind of device and b) being legally unable to fully control said device and c) having that device explicitly working (again by legal requirement) against our own interests It will be interesting to watch how things will progress and whether governments or corporations will be the ones ho…

What is the device required referenced in 'A'? My mind might just be missing something obvious, but I'm drawing a blank.

A smart-phone of one of the two supported corporate-controlled OSs, iOS or Android.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#130

Post by raverbashing »

egberts1 wrote: post #112
raverbashing wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> much of Silicon Valley would be "Ludds" No, quite the opposite They're the ones who buy "smart locks" then get locked out of their place because they dropped their iPhone in a puddle or the lights went out They're the ones who come with genius ideas like reinventing the bus with Uber or fall for stuff like uBeam because they're too lazy to plug their phone into a charger

That’s why Lockly.com has THREE methods of opening a smart lock. 1. key 2. iPhone 3. PIN pad.

It is a good solution, yes.

But then they save the PIN on their phone instead of their memory because tiktok burned out their brain and they left the key home because "why do you need it since you have your iPhone!?11" and if this last point looks ridiculous remember this is exactly what happened with some Tesla owners going into areas of low cell service.

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