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Zero Data App

0data.app

121–130 of 132 posts

Re: Zero Data App

#121

This is great. For wide scale adoption of this (or any other tech for that matter) there has to be a way for people to make money. What are some business models that this enables?

I think if people develop apps with the enduser as the customer (i.e. respecting their data etc) then people should be happy to pay for the app.

Re: Zero Data App

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are developing both server and apps for [3] https://solidproject.org/ The effort is backed by Tim Berners Lee, with great auth libraries including dPop and PKCE token exchange

Why is Solid architected such that your data resides on a computer that you don’t own, when people own computers and phones that are plenty capable of storing data and communicating via the Internet?

Most users will likely prefer a secure way to sync data. There should be a self hosted option.

I am a huge fan and even started looking at Svelte to contribute to https://nomie.app. It is going back to syncing with your own CouchDB instance or just locally. Right now it’s local or to some blockchain company. I don’t remember the exact details any more but it seemed like no one had access to the data.

With Devonthink for Apple ecosystem, I synced between LAN/bonjour only for a while before switching to iCloud sync this year.

Re: Zero Data App

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resilience and availability are two great reasons, but even then, why not get those by utilizing end-to-end encrypted sync, such that the server does not have access to the data, but the devices do? Decoupling data storage from the application layer has some advantages, yes, but keeping the data in the clear server-side brings along many of the problems of the original: - Data is still centralized in large repositori…

I'm not sure how e2e encrypted sync works in this context. Someone needs to own a key. If the app is open, then it can't be an app key (or else it doesn't protect against bad actors on the server). Is there meant to be a tertiary party that holds the key then? Probably it would be difficult for most normal people to use a product like this.

I said this in another comment. A small open source project I love is https://Nomie.app. Every iteration has been made so the creator can’t see any data. It has been handled well enough that two friends were able to set it up before. Though they used hosted couchdb services to store their data.

Re: Zero Data App

#124
post #91
post #51

As someone dabbling with such an app right now, there are several hurdles if you want to exclusively use self sovereign identity. 1. Local data gets lost, so you need to sync for backup. But when your device gets lost or when you need to access it from elsewhere, how would you login to the said backup service? The most intuitive option is still a username and a password. 2. It's hard to transfer data from one device…

The internet also fundamentally changed how people perceive of their data being accessible. When I was trying to give advice to someone after their Chromebook bit the dust (from being dropped too many times), doing things like using a thumbdrive to maintain portable copies of the local data on the device... It was met with a can of worms of further questions starting with: a) what's a thumbdrive? and b) what's local…

I lived through having to move data using flash drives or by emailing files to myself. Heck in some cases the data had no easy way to transfer so I had to pick what device was the most convenient to have the data on. During that time it was my dream to just have everything automatically in sync.

I very much do not want to have to go back to that crap. Having it all "be there" is exactly how I want things to be.

Re: Zero Data App

#125

when looking at different data management approaches i see the following: - third party manages encryption keys and data custody, users manage none (dropbox, G drive et al) - third party manages data custody, users manage encryption key (e2e encryption, icedrive, pcloud, 1password etc) - third party manages none, user manages data custody (and eventually encryption) (0data and more generally "storing files in your co…

One large reason that option 2 isn't great is because people will forget or lose their key. And at that point you'll have a very angry customer when you tell them that you can't let them in or give them their data back (or at least not any useful data). People don't truly understand just how impossible it is to regain access to their data.

Re: Zero Data App

#126
post #91
post #51

As someone dabbling with such an app right now, there are several hurdles if you want to exclusively use self sovereign identity. 1. Local data gets lost, so you need to sync for backup. But when your device gets lost or when you need to access it from elsewhere, how would you login to the said backup service? The most intuitive option is still a username and a password. 2. It's hard to transfer data from one device…

The internet also fundamentally changed how people perceive of their data being accessible. When I was trying to give advice to someone after their Chromebook bit the dust (from being dropped too many times), doing things like using a thumbdrive to maintain portable copies of the local data on the device... It was met with a can of worms of further questions starting with: a) what's a thumbdrive? and b) what's local…

Ah yes. The cloud that we (society) have become so accustomed to. Keeping in mind, this definition often always refers to either Google's or Apple's storage plans.

I believe one of the reasons for phones nowadays that come with 64GB or less storage, is you can push this limitation with cloud backup.

Re: Zero Data App

#127
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy is not the only concern. Portability is another. Google Photos is holding my photo collection hostage at the moment. However, I completely agree with the second paragraph.

Hostage? You can export all of your Google Photos collection (I did that myself a month ago, to migrate to my NAS). It’s little annoying, and had some bugs with metadata, but possible.

The last sentence is the explanation

Re: Zero Data App

#128

While some people care about privacy, huge majority doesn’t (even if they say they do), as you can see be various services that have billions of users. The only way to make privacy happen is if it’s dead simple, works out of box, and not only doesn’t regresses your experience, but meaningfully enhances it. I’ve failed to see projects that would do that so far, and same here - it adds extra complexity for end user, wi…

people don't care about privacy, but at the same time if facebook (or whatever) didn't mine your information when you signed up first and you had to go deep into the settings to turn on tracking, nobody would care about that either. they just care about being able to do xyz for free.

do you know about the safe network? that seems relatively easy. the way its being designed is that you will have to log-in to access the network (which does add complexity compared to now) but the idea will be that you can sign up for websites and services using your log in ID. so you dont have to share your name or email address and there will be no need for a service to store your password

Re: Zero Data App

#129
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hostage? You can export all of your Google Photos collection (I did that myself a month ago, to migrate to my NAS). It’s little annoying, and had some bugs with metadata, but possible.

The last sentence is the explanation

Having a small puddle in front of your house, doesn’t mean you’re held hostage.

Dramatic and exaggerated hyperboles only help to turn conversation into flame wars.

Re: Zero Data App

#130
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last sentence is the explanation

Having a small puddle in front of your house, doesn’t mean you’re held hostage. Dramatic and exaggerated hyperboles only help to turn conversation into flame wars.

It removed the feature that syncs my photos with storage I control, and the only option left is an export tool that tends to forget some photos, or exclude some metadata.

The removal of that feature certainly wasn't accidental.

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