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Zero Data App

0data.app

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Re: Zero Data App

#81

Post by arendtio »

jeswin wrote: post #51

As someone dabbling with such an app right now, there are several hurdles if you want to exclusively use self sovereign identity. 1. Local data gets lost, so you need to sync for backup. But when your device gets lost or when you need to access it from elsewhere, how would you login to the said backup service? The most intuitive option is still a username and a password. 2. It's hard to transfer data from one device…

A few years ago (~2017) I built an app that uses a hybrid backend. As a user you can choose if you want to use a WebDAV server of your own or simply the builtin AWS backend. That way, people who care about their data can use their own server (e.g. a Nextcloud) as a backend and everyone else doesn't have to bother.

Sadly the code quality is prototypical at best and while I still use the app multiple times per week, I never released it and have quite a few leanings which I want to implement (like rewriting the sync logic in a separate library, changing the server side data model to improve performance, completely reorganize the user interface and add more features to the app), but aren't coming to due to other priorities.

However, what I also learnt is that it is possible to build something like it, even if your use-case includes advanced topics like offline collaboration. My hope is that one day we will have a library that make these things for developers as easy as firebase and every app will have it out of the box.

Re: Zero Data App

#82

Post by justapassenger »

nicbou wrote: post #77
justapassenger wrote: post #73

While some people care about privacy, huge majority doesn’t (even if they say they do), as you can see be various services that have billions of users. The only way to make privacy happen is if it’s dead simple, works out of box, and not only doesn’t regresses your experience, but meaningfully enhances it. I’ve failed to see projects that would do that so far, and same here - it adds extra complexity for end user, wi…

Privacy is not the only concern. Portability is another. Google Photos is holding my photo collection hostage at the moment. However, I completely agree with the second paragraph.

Hostage? You can export all of your Google Photos collection (I did that myself a month ago, to migrate to my NAS). It’s little annoying, and had some bugs with metadata, but possible.

Re: Zero Data App

#83

Post by conradev »

gibsonf1 wrote: post #48
sradman wrote: post #25

0data appears to be a curated collection of five best-in-class libraries/frameworks that enable building SPA apps with user controlled data, rather than Big Tech controlled platforms and services. 1. Autonomous Data 2. remoteStorage 3. Solid Project 4. Unhosted 5. Fission [1] https://noeldemartin.github.io/autonomous-data/introduction.... [2] https://remotestorage.io/ [3] https://solidproject.org/ [4] https://unhoste…

We are developing both server and apps for [3] https://solidproject.org/ The effort is backed by Tim Berners Lee, with great auth libraries including dPop and PKCE token exchange

Why is Solid architected such that your data resides on a computer that you don’t own, when people own computers and phones that are plenty capable of storing data and communicating via the Internet?

Re: Zero Data App

#84

Post by 627467 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #70
satyrnein wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine that most users dramatically prefer the sharing, backup, and organization capabilities of proprietary cloud apps to local files. You are correct of course about apps that were able to interoperate on standard file formats, but I think most of those workflows were fairly complicated for typical users.

"I imagine that most users dramatically prefer the sharing, backup, and organization capabilities of proprietary cloud apps to local files." My mother has burned family photos to optical disk 20 years ago, we have physical photos that lasted generations. Tell me which app or cloud product I can trust with data for my grandchildren? Which app will not dissapear, be discontinued, ban you or delete my data if I stop pay…

I agree with sentiment but the last time someone handed us a optical disk with memories in it we had to ask a relative for a device they had in the basement for us to read that disk.

Re: Zero Data App

#85

Post by jwolfe »

laurent123456 wrote: post #50

The message is good but the name makes no sense, and is almost the opposite of what’s described. In a traditional web app, the client has zero data, or just some cache. But in a "zero data app", in the way they mean it, the app has all the data, so certainly not "zero". Go explain the concept to someone unfamiliar with it with a nonsensical name like this.

Agreed. It needs something sexy like a Data Ownership Revolution or something like that.

Re: Zero Data App

#86

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

conradev wrote: post #83
gibsonf1 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are developing both server and apps for [3] https://solidproject.org/ The effort is backed by Tim Berners Lee, with great auth libraries including dPop and PKCE token exchange

Why is Solid architected such that your data resides on a computer that you don’t own, when people own computers and phones that are plenty capable of storing data and communicating via the Internet?

There are a number of reasons you might prefer an architecture like this. The main two are resilience (don't place all your eggs in one basket -- if your computer is damaged or lost you don't lose your data) and availability (if your computer is shut down you can still access your data from your phone, tablet, or another device).

It would make great sense to have a non-hosted backend option, though, for power users who prefer to self-host their data.

Re: Zero Data App

#87

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

justapassenger wrote: post #73

While some people care about privacy, huge majority doesn’t (even if they say they do), as you can see be various services that have billions of users. The only way to make privacy happen is if it’s dead simple, works out of box, and not only doesn’t regresses your experience, but meaningfully enhances it. I’ve failed to see projects that would do that so far, and same here - it adds extra complexity for end user, wi…

AND it goes against economic incentives for the typical dev (i.e. make migration harder to engender lock-in)! But, for devs who have portability and openness as priorities (volunteers and altruists, in other words) it seems very helpful to have a precompiled model of how to build apps that respect these priorities.

Re: Zero Data App

#88

Post by somdax »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #86
conradev wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Solid architected such that your data resides on a computer that you don’t own, when people own computers and phones that are plenty capable of storing data and communicating via the Internet?

There are a number of reasons you might prefer an architecture like this. The main two are resilience (don't place all your eggs in one basket -- if your computer is damaged or lost you don't lose your data) and availability (if your computer is shut down you can still access your data from your phone, tablet, or another device). It would make great sense to have a non-hosted backend option, though, for power users w…

You can host your own solid server, right?

Re: Zero Data App

#90

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

somdax wrote: post #88
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of reasons you might prefer an architecture like this. The main two are resilience (don't place all your eggs in one basket -- if your computer is damaged or lost you don't lose your data) and availability (if your computer is shut down you can still access your data from your phone, tablet, or another device). It would make great sense to have a non-hosted backend option, though, for power users w…

You can host your own solid server, right?

Perhaps so. I don't know the details. I was operating under the assumption that the parent comment was correct in its accusation that there was no self-hosting option.
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