8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now • Hacker News Board

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#121

Post by peteretep » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 9:04 AM UTC

kartan wrote: post #8

There was a time that it was difficult for me to understand how it was possible that governments in the middle east were supporting domestic terrorism. It was difficult to imagine how normal people were supporting the killing of fellow citizens. Now, that I see this same trend unravel in the USA it becomes easier to understand. I have seen for the past decades the shifting of what "conservative" means. Extremists wer…

> Except, maybe, for the rise of extremism in the United Kingdom

I'd challenge that -- what do you have in mind? I suspect we have far fewer politicians describable as far-right in the UK, where in France for example, RN has some actual power and voting numbers.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#122

Post by charlesism » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 9:07 AM UTC

patientplatypus wrote: post #52

This is so weird for me. This keeps happening and I just don't get it. The chan* boards are still some of the few places on the internet for people to actually learn something. I went to university, but I feel I only got an education when I started reading and 4chan.org/lit was where I went to learn. This was in my mid-20s - this is where I learned about things like Middlemarch, The Book of Disquiet, If On A Winters…

Is it complicated? You like a website, and that website is bad for the world. Coco-Cola causes tooth decay regardless of how much I enjoy drinking it.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#123

Post by taurath » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 9:12 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #113

throwaway0129 wrote: post #12

My friends and I used to visit the *chan sites when we were younger. Sometimes the discussions there were good e.g. if you browse the exercise forums. But then one of my closest friends killed himself silently. That was when I realized that these sites are no jokes. Some of the people there have fallen so deep into the pit of hate and depression. Nowadays I don't even link nor share the name of the sites to my younge…

I think this is mistaking the symptom for the cause. I'll admit this is largely my ideology, but large civic disengagement along with dire economic issues are the reasons for festering chan culture, not the other way around. It makes people ripe for accepting narratives that blame immigrants, women, muslims, etc.

It’s not about the narrative I don’t think - it’s about people trying to find communities that accept people as they are, and then what starts out as a joke starts to go too far. The commonality between every right wing mass shooter is that there was an online community - I dont think anyone goes straight to a hate community, they go to the first place they feel like they themselves aren’t treated awfully, and then latch onto whatever the culture is there. So it’s not so much the blaming their lives on others, as it is doing a win for their “team”.

I think fundamentally it’s due to the ostracization and lack of any real social support for outcasts in our open society that creates the monsters. We offer nothing and nowhere to go for those who don’t get along, so they end up in the back corners of the internet at the very bottom of the social barrel with nothing to do but fuck with the society that spurned them (or they themselves spurned).

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#124

Post by dodobirdlord » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 9:13 AM UTC

feu wrote: post #86

lumberjack wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ecofascism is what it is called and it is an inside joke. It is not a serious political position. It is meant precisely to confuse people like you.

That's an incredibly bold claim.

A google search for "ecofascism 8chan" turns up quite a bit.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#125

Post by dgellow » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 9:16 AM UTC

novok wrote: post #102

wyldfire wrote: post #13

I think that technology has brought us some truly marvelous things. But they also enable us to avoid casual social contact while enabling us to withdraw from meaningful social contact. Online anonymity permits endless Sybil attacks -- helping turn communities' frustration from anger and rage into violence. I'm guessing/assuming that 8chan is an anything goes censorship free community (like 4chan was/is?). And maybe i…

The red light district effect

What does that mean?

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#126

Post by eej2ya1K » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 9:18 AM UTC

charlchi wrote: post #119

eej2ya1K wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You start out by making relatively innocent jokes about jews, and notice that certain portions of the anglosphere left and right really respond to this. Not only do they tell you that you can't say that, they also shower you with threats of violence. Successful troll is successful. So you go a bit further, start moving into actual anti-semitic jokes, conspiracies. Still just for the lulz, but it gets an even better r…

If you think this is all just playing devil's advocate and trolling there is something deeply flawed about your assumptions about how these people(alienated young white men) experience modern culture and politics.

I was responding to a very specific by question by chvid and certainly don't think it's all about trolling.

(Oh, and as anyone who has seen a /pol/ meetup knows, they're not all young white men... alienated, though - yeah, I can see that...

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#127

Post by chvid » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 9:18 AM UTC

charlchi wrote: post #119

eej2ya1K wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You start out by making relatively innocent jokes about jews, and notice that certain portions of the anglosphere left and right really respond to this. Not only do they tell you that you can't say that, they also shower you with threats of violence. Successful troll is successful. So you go a bit further, start moving into actual anti-semitic jokes, conspiracies. Still just for the lulz, but it gets an even better r…

If you think this is all just playing devil's advocate and trolling there is something deeply flawed about your assumptions about how these people(alienated young white men) experience modern culture and politics.

I think it there is a lot of things going on at the same time.

Mental health issues, loneliness, social issues such as homelessness (living with your parents) and unemployment (underemployment, declining living standards), teenagers seeking borders and deliberately going for things that their parents does not approve, people seeking political change by first destroying the existing world.

But still it is hard to understand how it has gotten to the state it is today. This attack, the Christchurch attack are directly related to the chans. If Breivik was 5 years later, he would probably be there as well.

Plus other things are coming out of these boards that seem to start as practical jokes but ends up having major impact: Hyping of various cryptocurrencies, QAnon ...

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#128

Post by s9w » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 9:22 AM UTC

panpanna wrote: post #112

zaksoup wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] shutting down discussion of [gamergate]. My, what an interesting way of saying "banning users posting sexually violent threats"

To people dowvoting parent: please google gamergate Charlottenville

Not only is there no connection between pro-gamergate and threats, it's literally the other way round. And Charlottesville has absolutely nothing to do with this whatsoever

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#129

Post by fapjacks » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 9:25 AM UTC

People seemed to have invented writing to keep track of grain inventories, and to record for all eternity the great moral decline of the world caused by the doings of the author's political enemies, and if only they had the tools to stop the Bad Ideas from spreading, why, we could all live a utopian existence of pure harmony.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#130

Post by eej2ya1K » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 9:26 AM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #99

htns wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it's simply that most jew-hating etc. jokes are unmotivated unless you hate jews. If you don't hate jews you find the jokes unfunny and tedious and stop browsing, and if you do you join in. The origins of 8/4chan barely matter.

There is a certain amount of humor that can be derived from being as offensive as possible, without caring about who you’re offending or why. It doesn’t require hate, just not giving a shit about people’s feelings. What happens in an environment like that is that people that _do_ hate start to feel welcome, and eventually drive out the people who were just in it for the lulz. Or radicalizing them as well.

Exactly this.

And if you want someone to care about your feelings, the first step is never to tell them they are garbage.

Loving your enemy is a worthwhile strategy.